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	<title>Comments on: Blogher 06: Culture, Crowds and Celebrity</title>
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	<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/</link>
	<description>...politics, pictures, pugs and all that jazz</description>
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		<title>By: Should we make money or save the world? The many souls of Blogher06 &#124; AntonellaPavese.com</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-4246</link>
		<dc:creator>Should we make money or save the world? The many souls of Blogher06 &#124; AntonellaPavese.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-4246</guid>
		<description>[...] According to the reports and my first-hand experience, the 700 and some women bloggers who attended Blogher06 were a diverse bunch. It wasn&#8217;t so much because of diversity in race, sexual orientation, or age. People who attended Blogher05 say that if anything this year&#8217;s conference seemed somewhat more &#8220;heteronormative&#8221; (they also say that Blogher can be as diverse as we all can make it; we just have to speak up). Blogher06 got itself in trouble because it pulled together people with more different backgrounds, skills, interests, and goals than your average conference. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] According to the reports and my first-hand experience, the 700 and some women bloggers who attended Blogher06 were a diverse bunch. It wasn&#8217;t so much because of diversity in race, sexual orientation, or age. People who attended Blogher05 say that if anything this year&#8217;s conference seemed somewhat more &#8220;heteronormative&#8221; (they also say that Blogher can be as diverse as we all can make it; we just have to speak up). Blogher06 got itself in trouble because it pulled together people with more different backgrounds, skills, interests, and goals than your average conference. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy White</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-2802</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Aug 2006 23:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2802</guid>
		<description>Good thread, here and over on Daily Dose of Denise. Thanks to all. Lots of thought provoking comments (and glad that I was not the only typo-ista!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good thread, here and over on Daily Dose of Denise. Thanks to all. Lots of thought provoking comments (and glad that I was not the only typo-ista!)</p>
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		<title>By: drumsnwhistles</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-2781</link>
		<dc:creator>drumsnwhistles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Aug 2006 09:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2781</guid>
		<description>Hi Sarah -- I&#039;m sure she was.  Had I figured out who she was I probably would&#039;ve introduced myself and expressed appreciation for her, too, but I was a little bit lame.  

Your point about being uncomfortable with the attention is well-taken.  I&#039;m sure that&#039;s true as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sarah &#8212; I&#8217;m sure she was.  Had I figured out who she was I probably would&#8217;ve introduced myself and expressed appreciation for her, too, but I was a little bit lame.  </p>
<p>Your point about being uncomfortable with the attention is well-taken.  I&#8217;m sure that&#8217;s true as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah, Goon Squad Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-2764</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah, Goon Squad Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 16:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2764</guid>
		<description>I can see exactly what you are saying here, but I did go up and talk to Heather and she was lovely.

Some of the other &quot;celebrities&quot; weren&#039;t quite as friendly, but I got the feeling that they were uncomfortable with all the attention. Bloggers are used to having some anonymity or at least distance from their readers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see exactly what you are saying here, but I did go up and talk to Heather and she was lovely.</p>
<p>Some of the other &#8220;celebrities&#8221; weren&#8217;t quite as friendly, but I got the feeling that they were uncomfortable with all the attention. Bloggers are used to having some anonymity or at least distance from their readers.</p>
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		<title>By: Making the Bitch-o-Matic Obsolete at odd time signatures</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-2753</link>
		<dc:creator>Making the Bitch-o-Matic Obsolete at odd time signatures</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 06:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2753</guid>
		<description>[...] Denise&#8217;s reaction to my post on Culture and Celebrity was surprising to me &#8212; she read it as an effort to criticize or minimize others&#8217; accomplishments.  Haven&#8217;t you ever wanted to meet someone you respected and admired for their work? Haven&#8217;t you ever squealed with delight when you were able to meet someone like that? Or have you never felt an attachment of that nature so you simply can&#8217;t understand it and so must try and convince others that their feelings are somehow wrong or even harmful? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Denise&#8217;s reaction to my post on Culture and Celebrity was surprising to me &#8212; she read it as an effort to criticize or minimize others&#8217; accomplishments.  Haven&#8217;t you ever wanted to meet someone you respected and admired for their work? Haven&#8217;t you ever squealed with delight when you were able to meet someone like that? Or have you never felt an attachment of that nature so you simply can&#8217;t understand it and so must try and convince others that their feelings are somehow wrong or even harmful? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: drumsnwhistles</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-2750</link>
		<dc:creator>drumsnwhistles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 02:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2750</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=\&quot;http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2748\&quot; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Beth&lt;/a&gt;, Great photos!  That was a terrific icebreaker, kudos to you!

&lt;a href=\&quot;http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2743\&quot; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Nancy&lt;/a&gt;, Yes, I think you\&#039;re exactly right.  I really didn\&#039;t start this discussion with any intended criticism of celebrity or those who hold others up as celebrity, but more questioning whether that is the most productive interaction for any of us, and most importantly, those of us in the blogosphere who hold such power collectively toward change.

&lt;a href=\&quot;http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2745\&quot; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Liz&lt;/a&gt;,  great insights.  it is truly a matter of stepping out of the comfort zones, but on a higher level I wonder if it\&#039;s fair to hold up fallible people so high.  It seems like we don\&#039;t really give them enough room to fall softly if they should stumble.  It can be the same reason that musicians seem to get stale after a few hits, or writers fall into a formula -- it\&#039;s safer to do what works than try new pathways when you\&#039;re sitting under a microscope.

&lt;a href=\&quot;http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2740\&quot; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kris&lt;/a&gt;, I think we did meet at the community session.  At least, you seem very familiar to me. :)

&lt;a href=\&quot;http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2734\&quot; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mocha&lt;/a&gt;, bottle some of that middle child stuff and sprinkle it on this eldest -- you\&#039;ve definitely got a knack. :)

&lt;a href=\&quot;http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2737\&quot; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sage&lt;/a&gt; thanks for your kind comment!  I\&#039;m so glad to hear that your son is thriving and an A student.  That\&#039;s the goal.

&lt;a href=\&quot;http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2739\&quot; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Steve&lt;/a&gt;, I\&#039;m loving the videoblog.  And of course you already know that I love your mother\&#039;s blog, too.  

&lt;a href=\&quot;http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2744\&quot; rel=\&quot;nofollow\&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;TW&lt;/a&gt;, it was great the way you originally wrote it but I\&#039;m happy to put your edited quote in there if you want.  Better yet, I\&#039;ll just recommend that folks click the link. :)

So recommended.


DnW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href=\"http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2748\" rel=\"nofollow\" rel="nofollow">Beth</a>, Great photos!  That was a terrific icebreaker, kudos to you!</p>
<p><a href=\"http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2743\" rel=\"nofollow\" rel="nofollow">Nancy</a>, Yes, I think you\&#8217;re exactly right.  I really didn\&#8217;t start this discussion with any intended criticism of celebrity or those who hold others up as celebrity, but more questioning whether that is the most productive interaction for any of us, and most importantly, those of us in the blogosphere who hold such power collectively toward change.</p>
<p><a href=\"http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2745\" rel=\"nofollow\" rel="nofollow">Liz</a>,  great insights.  it is truly a matter of stepping out of the comfort zones, but on a higher level I wonder if it\&#8217;s fair to hold up fallible people so high.  It seems like we don\&#8217;t really give them enough room to fall softly if they should stumble.  It can be the same reason that musicians seem to get stale after a few hits, or writers fall into a formula &#8212; it\&#8217;s safer to do what works than try new pathways when you\&#8217;re sitting under a microscope.</p>
<p><a href=\"http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2740\" rel=\"nofollow\" rel="nofollow">Kris</a>, I think we did meet at the community session.  At least, you seem very familiar to me. <img src='http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><a href=\"http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2734\" rel=\"nofollow\" rel="nofollow">Mocha</a>, bottle some of that middle child stuff and sprinkle it on this eldest &#8212; you\&#8217;ve definitely got a knack. <img src='http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><a href=\"http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2737\" rel=\"nofollow\" rel="nofollow">Sage</a> thanks for your kind comment!  I\&#8217;m so glad to hear that your son is thriving and an A student.  That\&#8217;s the goal.</p>
<p><a href=\"http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2739\" rel=\"nofollow\" rel="nofollow">Steve</a>, I\&#8217;m loving the videoblog.  And of course you already know that I love your mother\&#8217;s blog, too.  </p>
<p><a href=\"http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2744\" rel=\"nofollow\" rel="nofollow">TW</a>, it was great the way you originally wrote it but I\&#8217;m happy to put your edited quote in there if you want.  Better yet, I\&#8217;ll just recommend that folks click the link. <img src='http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>So recommended.</p>
<p>DnW</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-2748</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 00:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2748</guid>
		<description>Well, I like Liz&#039;s point about going out of our comfort zone to talk to people they don&#039;t know.

About the celebrity stuff.  at one point I decided to do some research and approach some of the &quot;famous&quot; bloggers and get a photo with them ... act like groupy.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cambodia4kidsorg/sets/72157594216039910/

I was curious if I would get ignored, get 6 seconds of polite photograph, or have a brief engaging conversation ..... 

I&#039;m stewing on a social networking guide (face-to-face techniques) to go out of your comfort zone and talk to people even if they aren&#039;t famous blogger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I like Liz&#8217;s point about going out of our comfort zone to talk to people they don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>About the celebrity stuff.  at one point I decided to do some research and approach some of the &#8220;famous&#8221; bloggers and get a photo with them &#8230; act like groupy.<br />
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cambodia4kidsorg/sets/72157594216039910/" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/photos/cambodia4kidsorg/sets/72157594216039910/</a></p>
<p>I was curious if I would get ignored, get 6 seconds of polite photograph, or have a brief engaging conversation &#8230;.. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m stewing on a social networking guide (face-to-face techniques) to go out of your comfort zone and talk to people even if they aren&#8217;t famous blogger.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz Henry</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-2745</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 23:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2745</guid>
		<description>I agree with you and am not sure what to do about it other than trying hard to encourage people not to be cliquish, and to go a little outside their comfort zone talking to people they don&#039;t know.

 The thing I am finding out is that when a lot of people pay attention to you or read you and then want to talk to you, it is lovely yet exhausting. And it can feel like a weight of expectation.  People know that is true when they walk up to a person who is getting a lot of attention, i.e. fame within a particular scene, and that&#039;s part of what makes them feel shy or tongue-tied .  Book authors deal with it by doing lots and lots of small readings and book-signings. It gives structure to that interaction.  I see why, and how it is practical, and yet it cuts off the &quot;celebrity&quot; from being open to new relationships and serendipity.  

One way to defuse that is to value the people you know whose blogs or writing is just emerging. What is more productive and intimate... a commenty-bloggity relationship where your blogs are deeply intertextual, between 5 people who all pay attention to each other, or your comments on a &#039;celebrity&quot; site?   In social network terms: people tend to over-value a link to or from a celebrity - a node that is linked to 1000 other notes.  er, I forget the actual terms for this but something like &quot;eigenvectors&quot;. However, the most &quot;valuable&quot; networks are small and dense clusters with heavy activity.   So, make your own woolfcampy type of thing and you will all celebrate the value of your local cluster.  Decentralize fame.  Importance is not popularity - it is sustained, interlinked attention.

That said, I will still never forget that one 5 minute conversation I had with Ursula Le Guin where she told me how she stayed up all night before Wiscon 20, making a Bajoran earring to wear.  So I understand the gratification of the fannish moment.  And I also still tell little stories to myself about how someday we&#039;ll hang out around the kitchen table together, unable to remember that time when we weren&#039;t Best Friends... That&#039;s the kind of thought train that if you have it, must gently be pushed away so that you are freed to do the wonderful things that YOU will do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you and am not sure what to do about it other than trying hard to encourage people not to be cliquish, and to go a little outside their comfort zone talking to people they don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p> The thing I am finding out is that when a lot of people pay attention to you or read you and then want to talk to you, it is lovely yet exhausting. And it can feel like a weight of expectation.  People know that is true when they walk up to a person who is getting a lot of attention, i.e. fame within a particular scene, and that&#8217;s part of what makes them feel shy or tongue-tied .  Book authors deal with it by doing lots and lots of small readings and book-signings. It gives structure to that interaction.  I see why, and how it is practical, and yet it cuts off the &#8220;celebrity&#8221; from being open to new relationships and serendipity.  </p>
<p>One way to defuse that is to value the people you know whose blogs or writing is just emerging. What is more productive and intimate&#8230; a commenty-bloggity relationship where your blogs are deeply intertextual, between 5 people who all pay attention to each other, or your comments on a &#8216;celebrity&#8221; site?   In social network terms: people tend to over-value a link to or from a celebrity &#8211; a node that is linked to 1000 other notes.  er, I forget the actual terms for this but something like &#8220;eigenvectors&#8221;. However, the most &#8220;valuable&#8221; networks are small and dense clusters with heavy activity.   So, make your own woolfcampy type of thing and you will all celebrate the value of your local cluster.  Decentralize fame.  Importance is not popularity &#8211; it is sustained, interlinked attention.</p>
<p>That said, I will still never forget that one 5 minute conversation I had with Ursula Le Guin where she told me how she stayed up all night before Wiscon 20, making a Bajoran earring to wear.  So I understand the gratification of the fannish moment.  And I also still tell little stories to myself about how someday we&#8217;ll hang out around the kitchen table together, unable to remember that time when we weren&#8217;t Best Friends&#8230; That&#8217;s the kind of thought train that if you have it, must gently be pushed away so that you are freed to do the wonderful things that YOU will do.</p>
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		<title>By: TW</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-2744</link>
		<dc:creator>TW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 20:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2744</guid>
		<description>I added some punctuation and definitive articles in the sentences, so my post doesn&#039;t sound quite as incomprehensible as it did when I posted it at 1 am in some time zone that I shouldn&#039;t have been awake in. Airports eat punctuation. I am sure of it. Thanks for the link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I added some punctuation and definitive articles in the sentences, so my post doesn&#8217;t sound quite as incomprehensible as it did when I posted it at 1 am in some time zone that I shouldn&#8217;t have been awake in. Airports eat punctuation. I am sure of it. Thanks for the link.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy White</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/comment-page-1/#comment-2743</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 20:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drumsnwhistles.com/2006/08/01/blogher-06-culture-crowds-and-celebrity/#comment-2743</guid>
		<description>How about a shift from the culture of celebrity to the culture of appreciate of each of our talents and strengths? 

I think this is part of what I have started to blather about moving from the culture of fear to the culture of love. Maybe we need to shift the culture of celebrity a bit as well too. Wahddayathink?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about a shift from the culture of celebrity to the culture of appreciate of each of our talents and strengths? </p>
<p>I think this is part of what I have started to blather about moving from the culture of fear to the culture of love. Maybe we need to shift the culture of celebrity a bit as well too. Wahddayathink?</p>
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