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Dopey DOPA-ites take aim at Flickr?

by Karoli on August 4, 2006

Good lord, the world truly has turned upside down. I warn you now, this is a rant. I ask you now, please read it even though it’s a rant. It’s really important.

Via Liz Ditz (I Speak of Dreams), an email being sent to public librarians:

“We are curious as to the policy the [name] Public Library has concerning the access of online social networks. Specifically, we are concerned with the use of a Yahoo photo sharing website called Flickr. It seems that there is an entire subculture within that particular network which poses a grave danger to children. We have recorded thousands of hardcore and even child porn images being displayed to millions of kids for over a year now on Flickr, the whole time pleading with Yahoo to end the filthy flow. Recently, we have turned our attention to the disturbing number of public libraries that utilize this “service” and thus, expose children to this sick venue. Here is a page related to your area’s financed public library that resides on that site. That is no place for kids. We wouldn’t even put pictures of them there. Thank you. ”

[my emphasis added]

Folks, the culture of ignorance and fear is alive and well, thriving in the form of idiotic laws like DOPA. So….deconstructing the rhetoric in this incredibly insane piece of drivel a little bit might be in order.

  1. “Subculture posing a grave danger to children”.

    From Flickr’s Community Guidelines:

    You will see all sorts of things on Flickr, some of which may offend you. If you are offended by a photo you can either click away from the photo or you can flag it as “offensive” by clicking on the “May offend” link next to every photo. If you think there’s immediate cause for concern, you can report content and/or someone’s behavior to Flickr Staff.

  2. “thousands of hardcore and even child porn images being displayed to millions of kids…”

    I spent the last two hours searching Flickr, trying hard to come up with those hardcore and child porn images. I wouldn’t be surprised if my member profile was forever altered by the search terms I used. I won’t list them here, but I definitely tried every possible angle.

    I found five nude images of men. Not boys. Not teens. And none of those images were in a public photostream. They were posted as comments to groups where the photos themselves were private. Now I could’ve flagged them as offensive but they didn’t offend me. I did email the group admin and request that they not keep those images in the discussion area because I was unwilling to offer this group of whackos any kind of ammunition with which to load their guns and shoot.

    I also found two nude images of women. Clearly not younger women. Not pornographic in any way. Not offensive unless you get offended by nude images of older women.

    I found no hardcore images available without actually joining a group and proving my age. I found no child pornography of ANY kind. Nothing even close.

    If anyone can point me to this incredibly available stream of hardcore and child porn images, please do. Two hours of searching, clicking and checking yielded a whole lot of nothing for me. And I’m savvy.

  3. “That is no place for kids”

    So, I beg to differ. In fact, I beg to differ so much that I bought my daughter a Pro account on Flickr, where she happily organizes groups and comments on photos and has come so far with her own photography skills that I’m knocked out every time I see her newest sets.

    You know what I like the best? Why I think Flickr is ABSOLUTELY a great place for kids? Because it teaches them about being part of a community where they are respected for what they do instead of what they look like. It teaches them that they can interact with adults and people of all walks of life and ages without fear of being rejected because they’re kids. It teaches them how to be a responsible member of a community. It teaches them how to learn from the skills of others. It teaches them to derive joy in creating beautiful things.

    What exactly is wrong with that?

I have a contact on Flickr, Gail Orenstein, who is a gifted photojournalist. Many of the photos she posts are of strippers in various contexts. You can read her profile to understand why. They do not offend me. They do not cause me to shout out for Flickr to be banned from all public places. When you read her explanation of the photos themselves you understand them much better. They’re really cool photos.

She also blogs at GO Photos Weblog. Click on this photo and this one.

Which one offends you more deeply? Pink panties or bloody Lebanese children?

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  • Hi JJJ, and welcome --

    I looked at all of those links and found nothing even vaguely resembling child pornography. I did find a lot of parody, but nothing even close to the real deal, or at least, what I would imagine the real deal to be.

    DnW
  • my photo was linked among others that you claimed to depict "nude children"
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonfeinstein/94689...

    this is a photo of a blowup doll wearing a dress jacket. It's supposed to be funny and idiosyncratic. If you have an argument make sure the photos are directly relevant.

    thx
    JJJ
  • J --

    When you said you posted them it occurred to me that the spam filtering software I use might have caught them -- which it did. (Usually posts with this many links in them are spam...).

    It's there now.

    I think the photos speak for themselves -- they're hardly pornography. On the other hand, if I were tagging I wouldn't have tagged them with those terms, even if they're truly descriptive. It still doesn't justify banning flickr.

    DnW

    12-8-2006: I've placed the comments with links to the photos in question in the "moderated bucket" because they are attracting far too much spam. Thanks.
  • J.
    ......oh.

    I posted them somewhere. Hold on, I'll find them again. It's not really anything SEXUAL, and I agree with that. There weren't any other posts on here that I posted to?

    Crap. I knew I shouldn't use IE again.

    Ok, anyway, no, not many of them were sexual (unless you're into seeing naked kids), but then again, I didn't sign up for Flickr...I just did a search.

    Actually, I'll just bookmark this page and I'll look again if you want. I found quite a few of "nude children" on Flickr. I think that's what they're going after, and calling it "child pornography", because of the fact that it's kids and they're not wearing clothes.


    Anyway, on the subject of the OTHER thread I was posting to, I'm not trying to come off as an angry bastard or anything.

    And as for the one on here, I could have SWORN I posted those links. Bah...
  • J, I haven't ever had any links on this blog to photos of nude children. As my post implies, I couldn't find any. Certainly none that were in any way sexual -- perhaps a photo of a two-year old playing in the pool but I hardly consider that pornographic.

    This post has not been edited since it was posted, so I'm at a loss to know what you're talking about.
  • Thanks, Donna! It was a very cool idea on their part.
  • This is pretty outrageous. I don't know if I've ever seen a site that's as responsible as Flickr.

    On the other hand, congrats on your seconds of fame!
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