The heart of the matter

Zo,

I respectfully disagree with you. The message was clear: If an unrelated third party triggers someone's PTSD I am neither required to care or to act. That was what she wrote; that's what I responded to. I disagree with her and I disagree with you.

Disagreement is not condemnation, nor is it judgment. It is simply a different perspective on the same topic or issue.

What group woud that be, karoli?

I'm truly at a loss here, since I'm pretty much by myself, online and off.

Of course you removed Jeneane's words from context. You removed a phrase from a post of a warm and obviously hurting/unwell woman ... as if it weren't a phrase that people use everyday ...And you took it, instead, as her Universal Statement, and ran with it.

I would say a good 99% of the bloggers who've played judge and jury over all this have no idea how wrong or without facts they are. But this is one sleeping dog we oughtta all let lie!

Zo

Zo:

Excuse me, but it wasn't removed from context and more to the point, "I don't give a shit" was posted on a public blog that invited: a) comments; b) trackbacks; and c) pingbacks in a very public conversation that involves a larger issue than the people involved in this very public altercation. That's who the fuck asked me.

Of course, if you'd bothered to read anything posted here before pronouncing judgment you'd likely have figured out that links are not something I worry about.

If you don't like it don't read it. Right? Isn't that the mantra of your group? Ignore the shit, plow right through it?

Karoli: When the Adults are posting "I don't give a shit" in context and the Kidz are removing it from that context to crank out a blog post, I'm thinking two things. I'm thinking: link hungry, and, Who the fuck asked you.

Bert? Give it a rest. Truly. Kindly meant: give it all--including yourself--the gift of time.

Zo

I just want to clear something up from Jeneane's earlier comment:

(oh sorry you may not know tara emailed me saying kathy was planning a ’sexual harrassment suit)

I emailed a plea to Jeneane to talk to her friends (as I think she may have influence over them) and said there were a few of us gathering evidence for a "potential sexual harassment suit". Not Kathy. Actually, as much as we urged Kathy, she didn't. We still have the records, though.

Thank you, Bert. My family is grateful that I unleash my wordiness here and don't inflict it upon them. :)

Hi Karoli,

I normally don't spend a lot of time in the "blogosphere" but recently I have
been forced to : ) I have to say that you have made several posts in the last
few weeks that have really stood out, in a positive way.

Thanks,

Bert

There's no need for either one of you to apologize to me. Given the relative obscurity of this blog, it's safe to say that your conversation will fly below the radar.

I don't know either one of you beyond what I read on your blogs and what others say. Jeneane, when this whole thing blew up I spent about four hours on your blog, going back to the early days and reading through to the present. Not every post, but I tried to hit on enough of them to have a sense of who you are, what you care about, and how it could come to pass that your name was associated with all of this.

I think I have a fairly good idea of where you're coming from, and I'm certainly not oblivious to the fact that you've been ill and hospitalized during a substantial part of this.

I also know that whatever association you had was with the MeanKids site and not the one following, at least from what I've been able to discern from the incomplete Google cache, your own blog, and what you and others have said.

What compelled me to respond to your post and point number three was this: If we decide we don't need to give a shit (whether on the sidewalk or the internet or our own backyard or our kids' schools), then I believe we're at least passively complicit. This has been my biggest criticism of the whole idea of the meankids.org site -- that the purpose for which it was originally created went off-track, and everyone stood back and said 'it wasn't me, I didn't write it' while the train wreck barreled down the track taking lots of bystanders with it.

It could be that your own circumstances dictated that you couldn't really give it any attention. That's different. That I could understand, given the proximity of your hospitalization to the series of events that led things to where they are now. But that's not how I read your post, which is what led to the response.

In my perfect world, the real culprit would be identified and dealt with. It bothers me that on both sides of the debate there is so much aligning behind people and personalities instead of looking at the real issues that brought this to the fore.

I don't believe Kathy Sierra (who I don't know either beyond reading her blog and liking her posts) came out and posted what she did because she felt like being mean and taking a few high-profile bloggers out in the process. I do think her reaction was genuine (just as I believe yours to be) and real. I have walked in her shoes a couple of times and there comes a point where you feel like there is no option but to just come out with what's going on before descending to the bunker. It's her perception of the situation and she's entitled, just as you are.

Yet, the so-called blogstorm centered around personalities instead of issues, with people lining up behind friends, friends of friends, and they made it personal. At this point it's like sound caught in an echo chamber, gaining intensity with each bounce off the next wall but always saying the same thing.

Hopefully there will be a point where reconciliation (or at least a cease-fire) of personality can happen and the larger issues can be addressed without sheriffs' badges and a couple of virtual AK-47s.

Regards to you both.

I'm sorry too drumsnwhistles.

First off to drumsnwhistles - I'm sorry for taking over your blog. I appreciate
that you've hosted as much as you have.

My thanks, Bert


Jeneane,

Where can we have this conversation? email? your blog?

Okay Jeneane, what was the timeline? What are the facts? How specifically was
my last comment out of context?

Pretty much all of it, Bert. As I said, you prove with every interaction that you are not interested in the facts. That's why I won't engage you. If you were, I would.

Jeneane,

The fact is that on March 15th Kathy wrote to you and Frank specifically stating
that she had received three death threats, including the "noose" comment.

You can try to add confusion and distractions, but that simple fact remains.

Ten days before all of this blew up Kathy wrote to you and you basically blew her off
and continued to encourage those sites.

What part of that is out of context?

The post she asked Frank to leave up?

Bert, if you want to bring public content of the emails, that's probaby a really bad idea. You forget--and continue to--give the context. You say Kathy contacted me, nice but she did NOT mention the death threats taking place on her blog until after comign AT (not to) me. Until After Frank offered to pull the noose post -- which I saw prior to joey's addition) and Kathy wanted it left up. That is the SAME post that kathy inspired by asking for attention over on Frank's blog, I see.

When Kathy did decide to tell me about the death threats, it was under the veil of lawyers (oh sorry you may not know tara emailed me saying kathy was planning a 'sexual harrassment suit) and silence -- not about truth.

but then, I don't expect you to care about the truth, about facts. you've demonstrate that you don't.

In Kathy's post she said: "I do not want to be part of a culture of such hypocrisy
where Jeneane Sessum can be a prominent member of blogher, a speaker at
industry conferences, an outspoken advocate for women's rights, and at the
same time celebrate and encourage a site like meankids."

Ten days before Kathy made this post she wrote to Jeneane, expressing her fears
and concerns about the content on meankids. Jeneane wrote back to Kathy, dismissing
Kathy's concerns. Jeneane, while "tending to her own bus", took the time to make posts
on her blog that indeed "celebrated and encouraged" meankids and unclebob.

It seems to me that Jenean's sidewalk metaphor is disingenuous at best.

You know, if you were me, you might be upset too. I'm working on that part. Every. Day.

The not giving a shit #3 -- think context here -- is a "retrospect" comment. It is a me saying that I am not required to pay attention (or else pay with my online life) to the Internet, to what is going on with what I am NOT writing, on blogs I'm not acive on, during a month of my own trauma. I was tending to my own bus. And I got run over.

Okay. Thank you. Let the onslaught begin.