59 Comments to “GoFirstline.com: Evil, Deceptive Marketing to College Students”

1. MIke | July 24th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
   

   Having worked most of a summer with the group I am very familiar with their tactics. First thing I’d like to say about your Firstline article. You hit some key points, even if somewhat exaggerated, particularly how much a rep has to sell to actually turn revenue.

   But what the hell, that’s not what I wanted to tell you. The fact is I have installed almost a hundred accounts as an f-line technician. I’m not telling you this to toot my horn, I’m telling you this because it directly relates to your suspicion about licensing.

   During every one of those installs I wore a badge with my picture, it claimed I was licensed by the state of Maryland to go into a person’s home to install a security system.

   However, neither me nor any of my tech co-workers actually filled out paperwork, gave photos, or submitted fingerprints to the licensing division.- Supposedly we were waiting for money from corporate.

   My card may have been created in Photoshop for all I know.

   Keep digging

   -Mike
   That’s why I did it

2. karoli | July 24th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
   

   Hi Mike,

   Thanks for the comment. I did discover that they have a current California license, but I’m not sure if they actually have to get a separate direct sales license for the different territories they are in.

   It seems to me that the best possible scenario is that they’re running the whole thing on a shoestring without taking the proper steps to license individuals or to conduct direct marketing in certain areas.

3. Mike | July 24th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
   

   Shoestring budget?

   Go to its corporate office, see the high level management team. Multi-million dollar incomes are rampant. Shoestring implies low margins and a strugle. I believe the proper term is”Skimp” or “Skimm” as in skimming off the top, or skimping anywhere they can save a buck to pad their own pockets.

4. Josh | July 25th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
   

   The “art of deception” is not entirely a false accusation against Firstline. However, it is not uncommon among all kinds of sales jobs (especially door to door sales) either. Reps ARE told to sell air, as in any industry, some succeed and some don’t. To many, learning to “deceive”, sell, argue and communicate has been the only lesson they needed for life. Some consider the ‘deception’ that got them into the job most valuable too.

   If you’re always caught up on money, you’ll be disappointed everywhere you go. But if you understand other things, such as being able to overcome the fear of rejection, verbal abuse, humiliation, harsh working conditions, this would be a life lesson. For those who’ve done the job (and it’s NASTY), all come back saying “successful or not, I can do anything now!”.

   I encourage people to always ask questions about the company, to any company, to anybody trying to sell you something (as you will get that from customers yourself). Most importantly, read paperwork you will sign, that’s all that’s protecting your rights (and theirs).

   It should be no surprise many sales pitches they use sound much like MLM & get rich quick. You need to know facts from fiction, exaggeration from realistic expectations. There’s no industry or job for everybody.

   Feel free to read more in my blog.

5. Anon | July 25th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
   

   I worked for the company for 5 years. Truth be told, it is very hard work and takes a very strong determination to be successful. Almost 80% of the recruits that attempt to sell door-2-door don’t have the backbone for rejection. The other 20% end up making great money and continue to work in the industry through out college. I am now graduated, own my own home as well as many rentals, own my cars and toys, and don’t have any major debt. This is all thanks to the opportunity that Firstline provided me. They are a young company lead by young entreprnuers trying to manage the consistant 200-300% growth they experience each year.

   I will agree that not all reps for Firstline are trained by the same manager and might be taught different techniques that are not completely ethical. It is unfortunate that this happens within most sales organizations. What we should really discuss and try to make a difference in is ethics and integrity. It is up to the individual to decide what lines they will decide to cross or make gray.

6. karoli | July 26th, 2007 at 10:00 am
   

   Anon,

   My objection to this whole thing isn’t that there’s a potential to make money; and the fact that you did it for 5 years tells me that you were able to get in on the ground floor before a lot of this information came to light.

   It’s interesting to me to read the various discussions of Firstline around the web and see that those who are selling the product are rarely the focus of the buyer’s ire; typically, they’re referred to as polite young people who are selling an icky product.

   The problem isn’t the concept of direct sales. It’s this concept of direct sales, where students are dropped into areas that have already been heavily saturated with this type of approach and left to their own devices to make that quota using a hard-sell approach that involves entry into the homes of the people they’re selling to.

   This isn’t just about hard work. The whole setup is an invasive technique, and includes the equivalent of slamming as one tactic to get accounts.

7. Ashley | July 28th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
   

   I’m almost embarrassed for you that you have allowed yourself to be so persuaded by the bitter feelings held by a couple of reps who were unsuccessful. My husband and I both work for Firstline and I would like to clarify and correct you on virtually everything you have said. Firstly we only knock for about seven hours a day which is less working hours than most. The company sponsors weekly incentives for electronics (TV, Ipod’s, DVD players, digital cameras etc.) gift certificates, hotel stays and a ton of other neat things. We have no quotas, if a rep sells one a day he will have an excellent summer as is far above average. “The Art of Deception” this is sales, we’re offering people a system that is better than a lot of the systems out there because it’s based on newer technology, so we aren’t “scamming” people we’re helping them. And just so you are aware virtually all home security companies sell their systems door to door. In terms of not being licensed, all of our name badges have our pictures, our company ID’s, and the dealer licensing number for the state that we’re working in, and it clearly was stated in our contracts that if we wanted to specifically work in areas that required additional licensing that we were responsible. The amount of money you make in this job isn’t a “lie” as you referred, a below average rep will make 10,000 dollars this summer, and last time I checked that more than any kid would make flipping burgers. In Fresno they weren’t fleeing the local authorities they were moving so that they could combine two smaller offices into a more efficient size office. It is also clearly stated in our contracts than any cell-phone or car allowances that we get are for if we sign on to work again next summer. You make it sound like we threaten people on the doors, I’m offended. We do nothing like that. Everyone knows why they need security systems, we’re in America for goodness sake, and we just let people know about the great things that our system can do for them. I think next time you decide to take out some kind of personal vendetta against a company get your facts straight.

8. karoli | July 28th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
   

   Ashley,

   Here are some facts for you.

   Let’s start with the $10K that a ‘below-average rep’ might make. That would be how many accounts? I’m figuring about 80 if you factor in residuals.

   Now take that 10K and drop it by 15.8% for self-employment tax. Then drop it by another $2500 or so for state and federal income tax. Suddenly it’s become $5,000, or $500/week for 10 weeks work, less the $100/week housing allowance for single employees, so now it’s $400.

   Or put another way, $10K nets to about $8/hour, before cell phone and car expenses, and that net will not be settled until February 2008.

   I never said you threatened people at the doors; in fact, it’s clear that you are trained not to do that. On the other hand, the slamming tactic (I’m here to switch you to a new system…dah dah dah…before they know it they’re signing on the dotted line to switch systems without all the facts at their fingertips) is deceptive sales, plain and simple. That’s why there are laws against the long-distance carriers using that particular tactic, and it should also apply here.

   Think about this for a minute. You are supposed to knock cold on someone’s door, and gain entry to their home to point out potential sensor points for this new system. Has it occurred to you that this is something that a person thinking about robbing the place might (and yes, it’s been done) use?

   Once again, this is not about direct sales. This is about sales tactics and techniques which are clearly deceptive both in terms of how it’s sold to customers and how it’s sold to students.

   If you signed up for Firstline, then you weren’t marketed based upon the promise of the reality-show-the-prodigy-pie in the sky. Good on you. But lots and lots of students were, and they are the ones that are much the poorer.

   You can save your embarrassment for someone who hasn’t spent time researching this whole scene, thankyouverymuch.

9. Anon | August 1st, 2007 at 10:27 am
   

   Karoli-

   I want you to know that I agree with you on a lot of the points you bring up. There are obviously some individual reps use to manipulate there way into making a sale. Looking at the company from the inside out and now the outside in, I can tell you that the company does not teach manipulation and deceptive technique in obtaining its objectives. Selling products door-to-door has been done for longer than I even know, and if a prospect is genuinly interested in a product that will protect thier family and home and they feel it is of value to them to have it, then they should let someone in thier home to help them see what will serve them best and give them the best protection. It’s the nature of the business, you can’t properly protect someone’s home unless you are allowed in the house to see what they need not what they have. Granted, in almost ever industry in existence, there have been individuals that take an honest trade or technique and use it as a scam. I have personally sold in areas where a short time after houses were being broke in to and they found that it was a group of individuals following us in white shirts saying they were an alarm company. The only thing it did for us was boost our sales.

10. Jack Payne | August 3rd, 2007 at 4:44 pm
    

    Trouble with current law, as taught in law schools, is that “legal” crime is never touched. I would not go so far as to say this operation falls into this vast gray area, but the differences-of opinion-discussion it stirs up certainly dictates close scruitiny. Take the split, 80% disgruntled drop-outs, and 20% winners Those kids who make it big. (Personally, I would think the split would be closer to 90%-10%.) The winners come out of college with this experience ready to go bear hunting with a stick. A hightly valuable education, in itself, as well as a valuable “street side” lesson in life.

    So, one must ask oneself, how bad is this? Really. Sadly, in all walks of life, debris lines the sides of the path. The winners become the leaders. And, hopefully, the losers will pick themselves up somewhere else along the line and make themselves winners too.

    Personally, I don’t like this independent contractor / employee confusion so often employed by scam artists that seems to be in play here. I don’t care for the licensing questions. I don’t like other aspects of this operation as well. But it all comes down to which came first?
    Horse? Cart? Chicken? Egg? Or, the bottom line, routine summer employees, or movers and shakers of tomorrow?

    –Jack Payne

11. Unknown | August 4th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
    

    I currently work for firstline there is a girl in my office that was part of the prodigy and has never seen a camera, and if you want to look at the money ill break down the pay scale honestly for once. 10K is the number brought up earlier so ill use that. at 35 sales you are told u recieve $11,310 u get $130 for each sale, $1,750 for getting the activation fee on every account u get $50 for each activation u get but its really hard and its more worth it to waive them so most reps wave almost all of them what happens then is u dont get that $1,750 and they subtract $50 off of each deal so that $130 just became $80. you then have the tuition bonus $1,000 whcih you get and then the rent bonus of $100 for every week you lived in the appartments but since you payed this out of your pocket during the summer its not really a bonus but u get your money back but they added that money twice to boost the payscale, then theres a $500 dollar training bonus which u get if you went to the pre-season trainings. Now we get to the made up numbers there is a 10% bonus if less than 10% of your office quits i’m from a school that gets out a month later than others by time i’d gotten there over ten people quick the next week another 10 over fifty percent quit, that incentive is made up to boost the number because they know more then 10% will quit every year. then theres the vacation bonus which they say u get at 25 but u dont get until 75 or 55 if u sign back so u can subtract that from that 10K as well so net pay at 35 sales they say is $11,310 but is really $4,300 and that before taxes and what u spent on food and other things during the summer o ya and my plane ticket home, another thing i’m leading the pack as far as people from my school and i have 15 accounts completely finished after 2 months theres one kid with 5 and to make 10k i need to get to about 65 maybe if i stay motivated i can just barely make it out without owing the company money cause i ya i forgot if u dont make 25 u dont get your rent tuition or training bonus if i get 24 accounts ill make $930 dollars before i take out food for the summer plane ticket home taxes and my girlfriends $370 dollar plane ticket that i bought when i still had dreams of money now my motivation is staying out of debt, pardon my french but fuck firstline

12. Anonymous | August 7th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
    

    i’m so glad i found all your input!!! we were solicited by firstline & their scare tactics, & my husband almost fell for their crap. i thought i was smelling a rat - now i know i was right!!! but this is the first time i’m seeing the situation from the student’s point of view. we actually filed a police report when the sales guy came back to our house @ 9:30 that night saying that he could lose his job because we cancelled our order, & trying to lay the guilt trip on us. now i realize this company probably threatened him. the whole thing is a scam, playing on fears of the consumer & of the college students/reps. i’m also suspicous they use a cult-like stategy to brainwash these kids - how f’d up is that!!! i’d love to see this scam exposed nationally - in fact, i’m sure they soon will be!!! death to firstlne & thier deceptive ways!

13. Paul | August 11th, 2007 at 1:29 am
    

    Ok, I want to clear a few things up here. I am a first-year rep in one of the Washington state offices (Vancouver). I was a Prodigy recruit from Texas A&M University and had heard nothing about the company before February of 2007. I attended four training sessions and I have to say that they did not teach us scare tactics. Maybe the Texas region trains differently but we were trained to be assumptive and straight-forward (sign in the yard, advertise our company…which almost every major alarm company does by the way…and we provide a free system). We were taught to build the value of the system, not scare people into needing it.

    Now about the Prodigy “scam”. First off, if you are too dense to see that it was a recruiting tool, then you are way too gullible and don’t need to be making decisions by yourself. No offense to this woman’s son, but at 26 years old you should not need your mom to post extensive blogs explaining why you could not succeed at something you tried. Sure, the lure of the reality show got people to show up in the masses, but the company and what we were going to do was explained in DETAIL before they even announced where we were going for the summer. You had plenty of chances to walk away.

    In regards to the actual system, this is where your facts are wrong. The system is provided by GE, and is wireless. It was already one of the leading security systems out there. What our company does however, is put a cellular module into the panel. This makes the monitoring that used to go through the telephone line, pass through a cell signal. First off, find another company that offers a system with cellular MONITORING for free. Second, how is this deception? Cellular monitoring provides an incredibly secure connection, while also eliminating the vulnerabilty that telephone lines had. Now think what you want, but after personally watching the system work…I feel completely confident offering it to the customer. Oh, and if you think we magically scam people into signing on the dotted line..think again. Each advertising home has to go through THREE confirmation calls where they are repeatedly asked if they understand everything that was presented. If the company was unethical, it would not require that those calls be made.

    Now the issue with the independent contractor situation. There are over 2500 reps. Imagine if the company had to make all 2500 of those reps registered employees for 3 months. By the time the papers were finished, the summer would be over. All of the managers in each office are employees of firstline however. As for the reps, the main reason we are independent contractors is because of stories like the one posted here. We are our own business out on the doors. We can say what we want and present things the way we want. If we are unethical and do not follow our training it mainly reflects badly on us. If we were employees then the company would be held responsible for every wise guy who ran their mouth. The fact is, it is smarter for the company to make us independent contractors. If you think thats not fair, find another internship that pays you like firstline does.

    As for the money? Two people in my office have ALREADY hit the $80,000 milestone, and many are on the way to make at least $30,000. This is real money people, not just a promise. If you put in the hard work, then you will be successful. If this is not for you, and you can’t handle it? Fine, but don’t try to bring self-motivated people down with you. I don’t rely on firstline to make me successful, I rely on my self.

    Everyone knew exactly what they were getting into. They did not recruit under-priviledged kids, or high-schoolers. We are all bright college students that want to succeed. So please, if you are still too weak-minded to make your own decisions, don’t dive into something like this. It is only for the strong-willed, and it is perfectly ok to say it’s not for you. But don’t blow hot air out there because you had a bad experience. Bottom line is that this is door-to-door direct sales and it has been around since the turn of the century. It is certainly not for everyone.

    P.S. Take a look at the INC. 500. The INC. 500 is a list of the 500 fastest growing privately held companies in the United States and the 2007 list will be released nationwide on August 28th. Many of the largest corporations today have previously been on this list. But hey what do I know?? I am just trying to be the Prodigy

14. karoli | August 11th, 2007 at 8:41 am
    

    Paul,

    You say,

    “First off, find another company that offers a system with cellular MONITORING for free…”

    And you say,

    …we were trained to be assumptive and straight-forward (sign in the yard, advertise our company…which almost every major alarm company does by the way…and we provide a free system).

    There is deception in both of these statements. First, it’s not free. I know the pitch — “You get all this hardware for free, just for putting our sign in the yard. And oh — by the way, there IS a $45/month monitoring fee…and a 36-month commitment…but HEY. The hardware is still free.”

    In fact, if you look online, you’ll find the very same system and services for about $15 less per month. If you do the math on the cumulative cost of a 36-month contract, it shouldn’t surprise you to figure out that the total paid works out to the cost of the hardware plus the lower monitoring fee.

    So much for straightforward selling.

    I was tempted not to address your perjorative remarks about whether I should have written blog posts concerning my kid, but I am resisting that temptation long enough to say that this is my blog and I didn’t get or need his permission to write my opinion about how things turned out for him. He is also self-motivated and bright and made his own decision to do this. That doesn’t mean I have to like it, agree with it, or remain silent about it.

    As to self-motivation, I admire it. I just wish that your talents were used in a business that doesn’t rely on deceptive marketing techniques to recruit employees and sell their product. His talents and self-motivation are now at work in an established company with a strong market, where he receives decent pay for a hard day’s work, along with some benefits. Don’t assume that to be self-motivated you have to be deceptive.

    There are lots of insurance agents and snake oil salesmen out there earning $30-$80K. That doesn’t make them ethical or their products and/or selling tactics any less smarmy. As another Firstline flag-waver says, it’s not just about the money.

15. Paul | August 11th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
    

    Karoli,

    If you could please provide me with the reference you found regarding a system that cost 15 dollars less a month I would appreciate it. Mind you, we use the GE simon XT with full cellular monitoring. And as far as deceptive? Are you familiar with a company called ADT? They have only been around since 1874, but their “deceptive technique” of offering free hardware and five year commitments has made them the worldwide leader in security. I mean firstline only asks for a 36 month agreement and provides the top of the line hardware for free. How is that not a good deal? Especially if you are in the market for home security. When someone calls me, or stops me on the street to thank me for what I offered them…I find it really hard to believe I scammed them. But then again, who knows. This is a tough business, and I find it funny that all the negative comments are from people who have quit after a couple of weeks or got fired. You should chat with people who have made this far. People who have witnessed the system save lives. People who have endured the hard work and have the will to succeed. I will use my talents at a company that does not use deceptive techniques. Who knows, I might even stay with a company that is listed on the INC. 500 and is staged to go public…either way, I am honest, straight-forward, and I will be successful at what I do because of my work ethic.

    P.S. I would like to hear your opinion on the other topics I addressed.

16. karoli | August 12th, 2007 at 1:07 am
    

    Paul:

    Safemart.com has the complete Simon3 system with the GSM module for $459.95. Prepaid monitoring packages with central station monitoring are available through LiveWatch for $24.95/month with two months free, or 249.50/year, prepaid.

    Taking that through a theoretical three-year contract, you have $460 for the hardware, $250 for the first year, $600 for years 2-3 (assuming the prepay option stays at $25/month but there are not two free months), for a total of $850 for monitoring and $500 for the system (with sales tax if applicable).

    Total: $1,350 with hardware and no sign advertising in front.

    Firstline total, with so-called “free hardware”: 1,620.

    [Update: I was also able to price the Simon 3 5 point system with GSM, 2 keychain fobs, the handheld wireless touchpad, and 2 panic pendants for $526.88 at HomeSecurityStore.com. Once the system is installed, monitoring services can be ordered through Livewatch for the same prices listed above.]

    That leaves about $300 for an installation if necessary, though it appears from what I’m reading that the Simon 3 is really pretty easily self-installed.

    Now, with regard to ADT — you do realize that Firstline lists ADT as one of their partners on their website, alongside GE, Honeywell and Dish Networks, right? How do you reconcile trashing them when they’re partnered with Firstline (it appears that ADT offers monitoring services in some areas where GE doesn’t)? With regard to sales techniques, I’m sure I’d agree with you, particularly if they’re sold on the basis of fear.

    That’s one of my biggest objections, this idea of selling consumers on the idea that they just won’t be safe without this system. I’m sure that in some neighborhoods, their STUFF is safer with this system, but I have my doubts as to whether they are. Plus, it’s clear from the contract that if the option for station monitoring is selected (which is what you all sell), they may in fact give up their privacy which to me is a huge issue in light of the recent FISA erosion.

    As to your comments about the Inc 500, all I can say is that there’s more to measuring the value of a company than its net worth. Lest we all forget recent history, Enron was listed on the Inc 500, too, and we know the outcome of their “success”.

    Why not take the skills you have and work for a company selling products that really are needed and valuable and fairly priced? I’m not knocking you folks out there trudging the streets, but I am suggesting that your talents are better used for a straight-up operation.

    On the independent contractor issue, Firstline may indeed have a problem despite the numerous disclaimers they have in their manual and employment contract. There is a tax distinction made between true independent contractors (those who set their own hours, rate of pay, and extent of the services rendered) and those who are deemed to be “statutory employees”; that is, employees who are not subject to Federal Income tax withholding but are subject to withholding and matching employment tax contributions for FICA. The criteria for statutory employees are applied on a facts and circumstances basis, and include tests for whether employees have the autonomy to set their own hours, negotiate their pay rate and other traditional employee-employer relationship items. Most sales reps paid on commission are still deemed to be statutory employees, though I’m sure Firstline has paid some lawyers to research this thoroughly and walk on the edge of a defensible position.

    Please hear this final point, if you’ve made it this far. My criticism isn’t directed toward those of you out there knocking on the doors. I don’t think you’re unethical, but I do think you’ve been taught some deceptive sales techniques, including slamming residents who have another security system. (I am using the term ’slamming’ in the telecommunications sense of a smooth and subtle pitch where the customer doesn’t realize they’re switching companies until after the fact, even with the confirmation of their ‘information’ on the phone.) This is what I object to — the lack of transparency and disclosure.

    Why doesn’t Firstline have their pricing structure on their website for the different services?[ Update: I did discover pricing structures on the http://getfirstline.com website, along with a price for the hardware of $850]. Why isn’t there a written brochure that can be given to prospects with full disclosure? Why don’t they do a straight-up comparison in writing with the other services?

    Why? Because they are really selling a system that can be had for less with less cost to the monitoring, so they have a nice profit margin, which elevates them to the Inc 500 and very little else.

17. karoli | August 12th, 2007 at 2:44 am
    

    Paul,

    A question for you: Can you link me to the Inc 500 listing for Firstline?

    I couldn’t find it, nor any listing for possible predecessors.

18. Firstline Security Cost Comparison - odd time signatures - | August 12th, 2007 at 3:52 am
    

    [...] Paul, who is a first-year “Advertising Director” for Firstline Security in Washington State [...]

19. Anonymous | August 13th, 2007 at 10:38 am
    

    Paul’s assertion above that Firstline employs he and his fellow sales reps as independent contractors rather than employees, so Firstline can avoid liability for misrepresentations by the sales reps (although a dubious legal proposition) says it all about the integrity of the company.

    Also, most state alarm licensing laws require that persons selling alarm systems have a state issued license. So, if the company doesn’t have a license, the “subcontractor” should. It appears that Firstline and its sales reps are blatantly disregarding this legal requirement. In addition, most cities require permits to sell door-to-door. Query whether these requirements are ignored as well?

20. karoli | August 14th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
    

    Anonymous,

    They do meet some basic licensing requirements. I know, for example, that they’re licensed in the state of California. I know that the Eldest obtained some sort of document which was supposed to be in compliance with California state laws; however, I’ve read about other people who were not licensed.

    The contract makes the point that licensure is the responsibility of the individual, not Firstline.

    As to the door-to-door permits — that I’m not sure about at all. It could be that those were also expected to be the responsibility of each ‘advertising director’, but they’re not given a lot of guidance about how to get one and were doing a lot of city-skipping in the final weeks that he was with them, so…I tend to think it’s a loosely-kept requirement at best, but I don’t know for certain.

21. Paul | August 29th, 2007 at 9:32 am
    

    http://www.inc.com/inc5000/2007/company-profile.html?id=200702800

22. Paul | August 29th, 2007 at 9:34 am
    

    Also, your price comparison does not include our Simon XT. The prices quoted on the getfirstline site are for a honeywell system. The system that is being offered now is the simon XT.

23. karoli | August 29th, 2007 at 10:31 am
    

    The prices quoted in the post are indeed for the Simon XT.

24. scott | August 31st, 2007 at 5:45 pm
    

    Wow, I can’t believe the nonsense some of these people are dishing out.
    Paul: “Maybe the Texas region trains differently but we were trained to be assumptive and straight-forward (sign in the yard, advertise our company…which almost every major alarm company does by the way…and we provide a free system).”
    OK, first of all, NOTHING YOU OFFER IS FREE. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. It’s called self-delusion buddy… you’ve got it bad. If it’s completely free, then what do you call a monthly fee? Saying something is “free” can put your company in hot water if people ever get pissed off. Apparently you didn’t even bother to read what Karoli’s rebuttals of ten company claims to recruits. Also, the assumptive close is a huge issue for an expensive item like this. It is one thing to defend your actions because you needed money, believe in the product, etc., but these people have apparently been brainwashed so badly that they can’t even comprehend the possibility of anything being wrong with this company/industry. The only justification you “successful” people offer is the fact that you made a lot of money. You consistently sidestep all objections (a popular sales tactic of course). So let me understand this: a company is valuable because YOU had a good experience. I’m sorry, but if 90% of the reps were misled and barely made enough to scrape by on, you should count yourself DAMN lucky. Some aspect of your personality, some innate ability to bullshit like none other, maybe even a cute smile and big breasts with a healthy showing of cleavage, has made you one of the fortunate ones. I myself almost got suckered into the Southwestern Co. pyramiding scheme (you know selling high priced textbooks in a distant city by playing out the whole “I’m working my way through college” sympathy appeal crap) and I am sickened by the deception, to students and to customers alike.

25. RJ | September 17th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
    

    EVERYONE WHO SPEAKS NEGATIVE ABOUT FIRSTLINE IS COMPLETE IDIOTS ! WE OUR A TOP INC 500 HUNDRED COMPANY …YOUR SON IS A LOSER WHO CAN NOT DO ANYTHING BETTER IN LIFE BUT COMPLAIN. IF YOU CAN DO THIS JOB YOU CAN DO ANYTHING IN LIFE !

26. karoli | September 17th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
    

    RJ,

    I’m sure you didn’t look hard at this; in fact, I’m sure you didn’t look at all. However, just so you know, I generally don’t leave comments here that: a) shout; and b) flame others, particularly when you’re flaming people on my nickel.

    But I’m leaving it, because it reflects so poorly on Firstline that the people who read it will understand the nature of the folks knocking on their doors. At least, some of them. Others who have commented here have left reasonable comments, pro and con.

    Yours will stand as the small minority who, lacking much else to say worth reading, resort to tantrums and flaming to make a non-point.

27. karoli | October 21st, 2007 at 8:12 pm
    

    To Joe, whose comment is no longer visible:

    If you want to repost everything without the language and the flames, fine. If you want to rant about me with that language, I invite you to do so on your own blog that YOU maintain and pay for. My bandwidth isn’t available for the language.

    You wanna tell me I’m a meddling old broad, do it politely or you’ll get yourself deleted and banned.

28. Anonymous | October 24th, 2007 at 8:17 am
    

    Karoli,

    Did you ever work for Firstline or are all of your stories and research done from past employees?

    Just curious?

    I have a lot of comments but I am more curious as to how you obtained your knowledge.

29. karoli | October 24th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
    

    Anonymous:

    I am not an employee nor have I been. What I’ve reported here has been from interviews and first hand accounts of former employees.

30. Theo | November 1st, 2007 at 12:55 pm
    

    The concept of summer sales for students is indeed a great opportunity for those looking to maximize their income potential during their short 3 to 4 month summer break. The problem with companies like Firstline is they recruit by offering great promises of money that they know only 10% of their people will ever earn. When Sales Reps are turned into Managers, they are required to recruit their own team for the upcoming season. This is where the madness begins. The new manager/recruiter finds that when he tells people they will earn $80K to $100K, they have more success than when they try to be realistic and let people know it will really be more like $10K to $15K. The manager also omits, or brushes over, as much of negative aspects as possible in order to not scare them away as a new recruit. At the end of the summer, 90% of the people struggle and make very little if any money, but that’s OK with Firstline because they have their 10% who do make good money…who they promote to mangage the next year and start the process all over again.

    The other big ‘cover-up’ is how difficult selling Alarms really is. There is a reason that they have to pay out such large commissions…the job is waaay more difficult than you are lead to beleive. If you sold 1 alarm contract every other day, that means you are knocking on doors for 14 straight hours in order to make 1 sell. That is 14 hours of straight NO’s to finally run into one YES. Now, imagine if you found out the next morning that the customer you just signed up cancelled on you. Think about trying to motivate yourself for the start of that day. This example is one of the main reasons so many people quit during the summer.

    Tips for a successful summer sales job:
    1. Stay away from ALL Home Security sales jobs. They all are very similar in how they operate. Over promise, under deliver.
    2. Find a company where the expected sales are a multiple per day. If you hear the word YES throughout the DAY, not WEEK, it helps you stay motivated and on task.
    3. Ask yourself, will the product/service I’m selling really help the customers I’ll be talking to, and am I offering that service for a competitive price.
    4. Is the product area specific. Selling Pest Control contracts where bugs are minimal is a good way to have a terrible summer
    5. Understand the payplan, is it straight forward, or are there plenty of contingencies.
    6. Remember, if it seems to good to be true, then it probably is too good to be true.
    7. If you have to invest any money to sign up or start, it probably isn’t something that will turn out positive.
    8. Remember, you will be working for 6 days a week, all summer long, make sure you become familiar with the sale/process/people well enough before you start in order to know that its something you want to do.
    9. If you want to enjoy a leisure, comfortable, pain-free life…stay home and find a job.
    10. There is definately great summer jobs out there, don’t base everything on Firstline, or other Alarm companies.

    Pest Control, Dish, and Garbage are three other types of summer jobs available. All have better upside, but need to be investigated to make sure you make the best choice for you. I prefer Garbage sales, but that is another story…

31. Nate | November 13th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
    

    I have heard all the negative things about Firstline and spent more time than I should have reading all these comments. I worked for firstline last summer. I read the contract, talked with former employees, spoke with competitor companies and then went and sold. I was honest on the doors. Some of my sales were telling people in the second sentence that “we’ll give you a system and install it and you need to pay 45 bucks a month to keep it monitored”. Then they would ask about a contract and I would tell them, “yes, its three years”. Ok, obviously not the best way to sale but I was honest and none of my customers were confused. I chose to sell in an honest manner. I saw others who didn’t which leads to angry customers and blogs like thes that don’t show the whole story. I think being deceptive is found in the salesman. The company may be seen shady but everything that was in the contract happened. I payed attention and knew what was expected of me. I knew and I made sure my customers knew that there was a 36 month contract and they had to pay 45 dollars a month. I also told them that if they brake their contract they have to pay it off. I don’t feel I need to justify myself but I want people to know that you don’t have to be shady to sale. Firstline is one of thousands of security companies that all use similar contracts and they all pitch “free equipment” with a monthly monitoring fee. I respect Karoli’s opinion and I don’t support anyone bashing on her blog. However, I do have a positive image of Firstline eventhough I doubt I will work for them again. I am not currently employed by them. I am definitely not “brain-washed”. I just want people to know it is possible to work for Firstline and not be shady or deceitful and it is possible to have a positive experience, which is not just reserved to a mysterious “10%”. It is possible to make money working for them in the summer. The payscale can be tricky but what contract isn’t? You have to know what you are getting into before you go out. I was informed and trained by the company sufficiently enough to know that it is not a “scam”. You may be able to find cheaper deals out there but that doesn’t make them unethical. ADT’s monthly monitoring prices are comparable to Firstline’s. I know there is cheaper out there but salesman work off commission and this is a competitive industry, prices will vary, but that doesnt’ make firstline wrong. I apologize for totally rambling and not having much order to my post but I had a positive experience and I definitely don’t fit in the top 10%. I think I was ranked 315th in the company (out of somewhere around 700 sales reps). I came home with more money than I went out with and I didn’t feel mislead. I payed attention and did my research. I don’t feel more skilled nor consider myself any different than anyone else out there and that is why I think my positive experience is available for anyone who does the research necessary, talks to the right people, works hard and understands what he/she has committed to. They told me if I would go out and try hard and learn that I would come away with a positive experience and that is what I did. I definitely didn’t make tons of money like everyone thinks but I made more than I went out with. I think anyone can do what I did and I think Firstline gives the opportunity. I am not an exception to the rule. Karoli, I doubt I will work with firstline next year but that has nothing to do with my perspective of the company. I have other plans. I think firstline gave me great opportunities that I wouldn’t have gotten elsewhere. I respect the company. I was able to meet the owner personally and i hold him in high regard. I recommend you try to meet him also. If you want I’ll try to help you with that. Bottom line, firstline is “trying” to be a legitimate company that offers a product to customers. I think a lot of the negative things said are mistakes on the individual level and should not reflect on firstline. I think you need to go to the company and talk to more people in the office who work there and start posting some positive commments and get both sides of the story. I appreciate your comments but they are nothing I haven’t heard before. I know there are more satisfied customers than disgruntled. Instead of digging for negative things try digging for things positive and I bet you’ll find some.

32. KC | November 13th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
    

    I also spent this past summer working with Firstline. I have worked for several other summer sales type companies and Firstline is by far the most ethical. It is unfortunate that your son did not have a positive experience with the company but he is the exception not the norm. Firtline payed me every cent that they owed me for the work that I did. There primary concern was taking care of their employees I was only ever a phone call away from regional managers and division vice presidents. There are multiple checks that are done to ensure costomer satifaction. It wasn’t a hard job,come on we knocked on doors all day, and the product was a needed service so a lot of the time it sold itself, but it is emotionally draining to face rejection everyday and the job lacked variety but am so grateful that I stuck it out. I learned perserveerance this summer and a lot more about my character, about what I’ll do in life when things get hard. I am a better person because I worked with firstline and I worked withmany individuals who thought the same way.

33. karoli | November 13th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
    

    KC,

    He isn’t the exception. Read the other comments here and on the other Firstline posts on this site.

    I’m glad to hear a counterpoint and appreciate the polite way that you and Nate offered that. I’m also glad you had a good experience and believe in the company. But at this point, I’m seeing you guys as more the exception than the rule.

34. Spencer | December 20th, 2007 at 12:25 am
    

    Well this is all quite intresting. It is curiouse that when someone picks a side on a topic they can only find information that supports thier opnion. Now dont get me wrong I do not disagree with you completely I just think you need to be more carefull about what you write, someone might takte it for fact and then you are useing these very same decptive technique that you disagree with.

    You are very right, the sales pitch of the company is deciveing and maybe dishonest to an extent. Though you have to question the moral integrity of the sales rep and not the company. If someone told me I had to pitch the product in that way I would know that would be lieing and refuse to do it.

    All of these poeple who get scamed dont really get scammed at all. In fact they sign a contract and agree to the terms of the contract. This contract talks about rent, payscale, payment plan, draws, work hours and location, etc. First of all if someone signs one of these contracts without reading it then they are imature and deserveing of what they get or they were poorly raised by thier parents. Now if they are told something they will get and they dont see it in writeing why would they sign it. Once again these errors are thier own fault and yes its sad that we cant just trust everything that comes out of poeples mouth but we just cant.

    On the topic of liseceing…these salesreps are independent contractors, or in otherwords they work for themsleves and the company is paying them for the service they provide. So if a salesrep is selling in an area that dooesnt allow door to door selling then its the sales rep’s responsibility to get porper lisencing and/or permision to be there. If the sales rep is concerned that the company doesnt have the proper lisnecing that they need then thats thier responsibility to find that out, its public information for any one smart enough to just look it up.

    As to the money, well all that tax stuff you talked about was nice and sounded pretty good, but most of it just doesnt apply. These studnets work out of state so they get tax perdiums for every day workrd out of sate. They can write off gas purchased, clothing bought, miles driven, cellphones used, etc. anyhting relating to the job can be written off as a job expense. Most of these sales resp dont pay a dime in taxes until they start makeing quite a bit of money. for these tax breaks the sales rep must be willing to take the time and do thier taxes correctly.

    On a lighter note I think the real scam was that your “kid” paid “…$1800 for one month’s usage.” of his cell phone. Now thats a scam, a lie, or another very foolish contract signed by your “kid”.

    Once again I agree that his company is poor at best. The pitch they teach is down right dishonest and maybe thier recruting techniques are decieveing. But in the end the problem lies with those who sign up with these companies. It is thier responsibility to read the contract and understand thier responsibilities. As you have seen with this blog there are many satisfied sales reps working for this company. Why? because they read the contract and made sure what the poeple told them was in the contract and then they went out and did what they had to do to sell the contracts. If what they have to do to sell the contracts is dishonest then thats on thier shoulders and not he compnaies because they are independent contractors. Those who sign contracts that they dont understand or have not read have no right to complain.

    The sales reps who complain about these companies are the same kinf of people who are whining about thier house forcloseing becase they agreed to a an ajustable rate mortgage. Maybe we americans need to stop pointing fingers and start taking responsibility for our own decisions “even the bad ones”.

35. karoli | December 20th, 2007 at 12:34 am
    

    Comments are still open for the “other side” to present their case. I made mine as I saw fit.

    As to the cell bill, I agree. It was outrageous and Alltel should be fined for allowing such travesties to continue on a daily basis.

36. Spencer | December 20th, 2007 at 11:02 am
    

    Karoli,
    I hope you didn’t take offense to my opinion. because as it is I would never work for that company or any other security selling company. They do infact do some very shady things that you failed to mention but that wasnt my point.
    I mean, is it that crazy of me to say that an adult who signs a contract should be responsible for his actions and understand the contract. Is it that crazy to asume that an adult who is an idependent contractor is reponsible to know who it is that is paying him for the work he does. Now if I am wrong then tel me why, but dont simply respond that you have already made your case. Just because my words seem strong dont fail to respond to them because your words were quite strong when you wrote you article about the scams, lies, and tricks they employed.
    Thanks for the speedy response to my “case” which is niehter your side nor the “other side”.

37. karoli | December 20th, 2007 at 11:28 am
    

    Spencer,

    I didn’t take offense, but I have answered this objection elsewhere. I have copies of the contracts and agreements. But just like the product itself, the devil’s in the very, very fine print, which they don’t want anyone to read at the time because reading it would kill the sale. The key to the Firstline sales technique is to get the customer/prospect so excited about the product/opportunity that they ignore the fine print. It’s intentional. I would argue that reading the contract has very little to do with the success or failure of any individual. Some people are gifted with sales acumen, and could sell someone an ice cube in hell. That doesn’t make it ethical or moral. Just successful.

    With that said, keep in mind that the recruitment was ostensibly for a “reality show”, not a summer sales job hawking security systems door-to-door. At the time of the so-called audition, the paperwork was intentionally vague about what exactly would be expected of these new recruits, and the followup paperwork was glossed over like a newly-minted ice rink.

    Even reading the fine print doesn’t give a full picture of the reality. Nothing in the fine print said “we can move you to a different territory 150 miles away with no notice whatsoever.” (Nor did it say that the territory they move to would suck). The contract is vague about the employer/employee/contractor relationship, and even an expert like me in these matters had to really dig under the legalese to discover how an independent contractor can be such when their hours, living arrangements, and territories are defined by Firstline rather than the contractor.

    The vagueness is on purpose. If they came out and said “Students, we want you to commit your summer to door-to-door sales of security systems that are readily available online at lower costs”, they wouldn’t recruit many, would they?

    Here are some of my other, later posts on Firstline — they explain more of the flaws I found in the contract and the product.

38. Anonymous | January 16th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
    

    Firstline is Bankrupt!!! Finally justice is served. I worked for Firstline for 3 years and continually saw everyone around me get screwed. I guess the saying what comes around goes around. By the way when you have people like Wright Thurston, Trevor Keyes, Lee Papa, and Jared Taggart running things run run run…

39. Jared | January 16th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
    

    I cant believe how many people fall for this crap. So supposibly Firstline is now partnering up with Pinnacle another summer sales company; what a lie. Firstline is Bankrupt they screwed me and hundreds of others on their backend. Pinnacle in my eyes is just as full of crap as Firstline.

40. wtf | January 16th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
    

    to jared

    how long this year did you work for firstline, Is that really true you and hundreds others didnt get your backend. why is that? because you didnt get licensed? or what happened. i did get my backend but on february 14 we are supposed to get end of the year check that they withhold supposedly to help you out with taxes but i dont know. oh yeah and screw pinnacle..

41. YouWishYouKnew | January 19th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
    

    I’ve lived with a bunch of guys that did summer sales for various companies for the past year now. Nice frickin houses, by the way. Sweet cars, great clothes, etc.

    I never even considered doing this because it always sounded way too good to be true, but the allure of big money is hard to escape when you’re surrounded by it for so long. Still, if anything was going to keep me away from the familiarity of home for the summer, it was going to be school and not some pipe-dream of a job that offers much more to lose than to gain. After learning that there was definitely going to be an office in my hometown in Summer of 2008, however, I decided to at least let myself check it out. After all, I figured, I have nothing to lose. Right?

    Let me make something perfectly clear before going on: I’m a very skeptical person by nature. I don’t accept anything at face value. Blame it on the genes; fault my pursuit of a degree in Psychology; whatever. My point is, I have doubted and questioned this whole operation from day one, but had yet to consult a reputable source of sure-fire information until last week when I agreed to at least “sign” with a guy who I live with. I read over every line of the contract, and that’s where I discovered that I did, in fact, have plenty to lose. I essentially uncovered the same story that many people like you, Karoli, have seen for yourselves or from the perspective of close friends and family. They list several ways, hidden amongst more-than-typically-deceptive lawyerspeak, that one can get screwed. They set up every possible barrier of defense (understandable to a point) to prevent themselves from being sued in any way (like the independent contractor bit which has been discussed quite extensively here), as well as numerous ways to say they will find any opportunity to sue you if possible(they try their best to scare you by demanding you never try to dissuade anyone from selling in the future).

    These people are good. Real good. You can tell by statements like those given by Paul, who is clearly chest-deep in denial and has completely bought into these sales company’s cult-like followings. It’s creepy and sad to see so many people convince themselves that, despite how shady and unrealistic these dreams may seem, they can end up living the life they’ve always wanted at only 18-26 years old. Hope if an extremely powerful tool, as is the universal desire for “something more; something better to life” and these businesses know how to manipulate these raw human emotions to the greatest extent. It’s the American Dream at its very worst.

    Just an interesting thought: In neither of these homes I’ve lived in, as well as the homes of others I’ve seen who work for similar parties (which are owned, operated and touted by [generally good] people who are higher-ups in the organization) has there been one of these systems installed. There were no other alarm systems of any kind being used at all, in fact. If these little miracle boxes really did so much, saved so many lives, and prevented so much danger from happening, then why haven’t the very people who should believe in them the most installed their own product in their homes? Can you see members of the Ferrari family NOT having one of their own cars in their garage? When I met Bob Hurley, do you think he was wearing a Volcom shirt, or one with his name on it??

    All I’m saying is that it’s interesting to see them put logos and statements like “Make $xxxx in 3 months!” on the back of their vehicles, yet they don’t even have an actual system in their own homes. That alone speaks volumes to me about their confidence in the very product they push on thousands of hapless consumers every summer.

42. Other | January 25th, 2008 at 11:33 am
    

    No work for us today - firstline didnt make payroll for their call center

43. karoli | January 25th, 2008 at 11:38 am
    

    Other,

    I’m so sorry to hear that. What will you do now?

44. Other | January 25th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
    

    Apparently some creditor put a hold on firstline that has to be lifted to make payroll. We were told not to come in today or tomorrow. The owners were in court this morning. I guess ill be sending out my resume!

45. Theo | January 25th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
    

    Back in 1998 my brother first worked for a Pest Control company. He was being offered a job back home that paid $12.50 per hour, and walked away from that to experience selling Pest Control…ending the summer earning over $30K his first year. But that was a different era, the one before the dark age of Alarms. These alarm companies are ruining the market by all their deceit and overpromising. To understand the motivation, you need to see all the pieces… 1. The Actual Alarm company hires a marketing company like Firstline to get them new accounts. To understand that the Alarm company can monitor 10’s of thousands of people with a small monitoring office, and all those customers are paying $30 to $40 per month, it is easy to see why the Alarm company would pay Firstline $2000 per account. 2. The less a sales rep sells, the less of this $2000 that Firstline needs to pay out based on their payscale. It would be in their best interest to hire twice as many people per office who sell 1/2 as much as promised, thus helping Firstline keep more of their $2000 commission from the actual alarm company. Even their experienced sales reps typically only earn $500 per sale, making it easy to see why corporate people can flash their money so abundantly. As firstline corporate people truly earn crazy money off the backs of the masses, they invest in full-page color advertising, recruiting buildings that show off their ’success’ that include swimming pools, video games, lounges, pool tables, everything you can imagine to get people to buy in to their mirage of success that awaits the un-knowing victim. 3. Due to the managers being paid really well, they flash their new cars and talk about how much money they made, and lure the unsuspecting victim to their fate. Some will earn good money, but the majority will end up hating summer sales forever, even though there are real honest opportunities for them to earn $15K+…just like the good ole days.

    There are plenty of good summer opportunities out there for people to find. Pest Control is a great opportunity, as is ‘Garbage’, which is my industry. We have been in business for 7 years, and have a great niche in the summer job industry saving people money on their subscription garbage service. Garbage is a service that everyone needs, and our whole ’sale’ is switching them to another company to save them money. Alarms is not a necessary/essencial service, and people can usually live their entire lives without it, unlike garbage. Everyone needs a garage service. Ask people at Firstline how many people use their own product and I’m sure it will be hard to find a soul. If people have bugs, they need pest control. If people want to watch TV, they can choose from Cable and Dish. But the bottom line is Alarms are a luxury item that people who don’t live in harder parts of town don’t need…unless someone comes to their door to tell them that their live is in danger unless you buy their product…Firstline

    Stay away, far away. That goes for all Alarm marketing companies, not just Firstline.

46. Anon | January 28th, 2008 at 8:59 am
    

    Wow, It sounds like someone is a little bitter. Just because your son had a bad experience doesn’t mean that this is all a scam. There are thousands of college students that go out for the summer and make a lot of money, do your research. Don’t be bitter, let it go, you are wasting your time trying to “debunk” all these security companies because the industry is a huge market. Just accept the fact that your son had a bad experience, and don’t try to make it the companies fault

47. karoli | January 28th, 2008 at 9:51 am
    

    Anon,

    I guess you missed all the comments about Firstline declaring bankruptcy, failing to make payroll last Friday and of course, not making the payoff to their “prodigy”.

    Bitter? Nah. Just tired of people profiteering off the backs of hard-working students. The one who should be bitter is “The Prodigy”.

48. Theo | January 28th, 2008 at 9:54 am
    

    Anon,

    There are many great summer sales opportunities out there, its just that non of them include working for Security companies. People can be successful, but at what cost. Personal integrity…not worth it. Using Fear as a tool for your personal gain…you must be proud. The lives of so many kids you deceive by promising the world knowing that few will succeed…not something I’d be proud of.

    Firstline’s down, who’s next? Apex, Pinnicle? Both? We can only hope.

49. Brooke | January 28th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
    

    Karoli,
    I’m going to have to take offense to your characterization of summer sales guys as liars and cheats. My husband has been in sales for going on 8 yrs now and worked for Firstline for 7 of those years. He is the most honest and hardworking guy I know. He never lies to customers and always leaves his sales with a good relationship with the customer. In fact, he often calls me to let me know that his customer has invited him to dinner and so he may be a little late getting home. At the end of each sale, sales reps are required to have the customers they sign up talk to someone in customer service who asks them point blank if they know the length of the contract is 36 months and that they know the specific price that they are required to pay each month. How exactly is that deceptive? Alarms save people’s lives. Period. He’s selling people something that could save their valuables at the least and more importantly, save their lives and the lives of their family members. Why do you buckle up when you drive? Your chances of getting in a car wreck are not seriously high. You do it so that in that unlikely event, you are protected. Same with health insurance, life insurance, and alarms. I personally love my kids too much to even take a chance that someone could break into my house and hurt or kidnap them. It unfortunate that your son didn’t have a good experience and now he has to find somewhere else to point the finger for his failure. Certainly, there are sales reps, managers, etc.. that are dishonest, but your son is the only one that decides what he’s going to say to customers on the doors. No one makes anyone sell their soul, it’s a choice that the indvidual makes. My husband choses every summer to go out and work extremely hard to provide for his family in an honest and upfront way. He has had his share of success but he knows he could sell more if he lied. He just choses to work that much harder than the guys who take the easy way out by cheating. So, it sounds like Starbucks or MacDonalds or whatever would be a good fit for your son. That way he can have someone tell him to work and take no intiative for his own success. But, if you are hardworking and self motivated you can have a lot of success selling alarms door to door and still maintain your integrity. By the way, how on any level do you think you have any real knowledge of summer sales. The only people your son has associated with and that you listen to are the guys that did the same thing he did and are now playing the blame game. This is a job that separates the men from the boys and some guys just aren’t ready to see that they are boys. I have no problem with guys that quit and have the personal insight to say, “hey, I just couldn’t cut it; it’s not something I want to do”. But the whiners who blame their experiece on everyone but themselves just irritate me to no end.

50. karoli | January 28th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
    

    Brooke,

    Thank you for your comments. Please note that the focus of this post was the framing of the “marketing director” position as a reality show. It was deceptive — intentionally deceptive — in order to recruit college students to sell door-to-door.

    In other comments, I explain why I believe the sales technique is deceptive. It is, particularly the part where the effort is made to switch customers from an existing contract to a new contract.

    I’ve heard the ‘hard-working self-motivated” spiel over and over again, but the fact is that unless you can bring yourself to take the approach that is based on deception, there is very little hope of success.

51. karoli | January 28th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
    

    A PS to Brooke:

    A “job” which leaves the employee in debt is no job at all. It’s indentured servitude.

    And to this comment:
    It unfortunate that your son didn’t have a good experience and now he has to find somewhere else to point the finger for his failure.

    Please. Give me at least a little credit for having a brain cell of my own. For example, are you aware that Fresno had a horrible experience with alarm sales and as a result, passed laws preventing door-to-door sales of alarm systems? Yet, that was where Firstline placed a group of kids. Was that something he had control over?

    Why weren’t the sales people given official sales material? Brochures explaining the service, access to business cards? Why were they called “advertising directors” when you clearly state that they were in fact door-to-door salespeople? Why were these kids dropped into neighborhoods where not one of them had ever lived and had no ties? YOUR husband may have customers calling to thank him, but these kids’ customers were intentionally NOT given a way to reach them again.

    Again, it’s wonderful that your spouse did so well and I can only hope he was paid all that he was owed. Don’t assume his experience is the same as others’, including those who sold lots of systems and now will not receive their full pay for that.

52. Brooke | January 28th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
    

    Did “these kids” you mentioned not have cell phones? My husband puts his cell phone number on the top of each contract. He doesn’t care if customers can call him because he has nothing to hide. The number to Firstline is on just about every singe piece of paper that the customer signs. And how is it that I know so many more people (in almost 8 yrs) that have had a good experience in summer sales as compared to those who have had a bad one? You take your son’s one year and the people he met and suddenly his experience is the norm? I think my husband and I have much more information with which to base our opinion off of. As for the official material: Firstline provided contracts, signs, and welcome packets for all of their sales reps. Business cards are a waste of time. People who want your business card just want a quick way to get you gone. They will never “call you back”. So, why would any door to door company waste the time and money to print out thousands of business cards that are just going to be thrown away. Your son should have read the contract he signed better to know what he was getting into. Why should a company have employees living off them when they are not producing any revenue for the company? That just doesn’t make any fiscal sense. As for the Prodigy being deceptive. Haven’t you ever seen “a free weekend in so and so” advertised on T.V. and all you have to do is attend a meeting. It’s obviously to sell you something and I would hope most people are smart enough to know that. Millions of companies use tactics like that to generate interest. I’m not saying I agree with it, but it’s not like Firstline made this approach up. And, anyone with any street sense can see that it is more than what’s at face value. I also know for a fact that Firstline was dead serious about the Prodigy when they rolled it out to their employees. Sure it was to generate interest in the company, but it was also to find a prodigy. How is “advertising director” deceptive. Waitresses and waiters now call themselves “servers” now but they still do that same thing. “Server” just sounds a little nicer. So are they being deceptive? The customers are advertising for the company and they are getting a free alarm system for it. If they were just to go out and buy the equitment, they would have to pay for it. And, even if you got a totally dishonest sales guy you would have to be a complete idiot not to see that you have to pay for the monitoring. It’s everywhere on the contract and you have to answer “yes” to the customer service respresentive that you understand that (did you gloss over that in my intial post?). And, finally, my husband isn’t a liar. Never has been and never will be. His approach isn’t based on deception. He is a good man who is doing his best to provide for his family. You don’t know him or anyone else in this industry so shame on you for your uneducated generalization. I’m not a cheerleader for Firstline. They do some things I don’t like, but you seriously don’t have clue when you start talking “summer sales” companies in gereral or the people that work in the industry. I have a little boy who I plan to raise to take responsibility for his own actions and experiences instead of being acted upon and blaming others.

53. karoli | January 28th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
    

    Brooke,

    1. Re: Cell Phones — yes, he has a cell phone which he just finished paying off the $1,800 bill on for using in connection with his Firstline gig and which, when dropped into Fresno, went on permanent roam. Why would any employer expect employees to use their own cell phones for business? Just sayin’.
    2. This post should clear the air about my opinion of summer sales versus Firstline’s version of summer sales. Nowhere in this post did I denounce summer sales as a general thing — my friend Liz has no use for them but I did not denounce it in anyway. I do, however, have nothing but contempt for the way students were ‘recruited’ and forced into areas that were not open to the sales of security alarm systems
    3. With regard to your “free weekend” analogy, I rest my case. Only this “free weekend” went on for nearly four weeks, until the contracts were produced. I challenge you to look at that contract through the filter of believing you are part of a reality show like The Apprentice while sitting in a group with a high-pressure sales pitch going on saying just initial here, here and here, sign here and you’re on the “show”. What the folks selling The Prodigy understood was that by putting the lens of a ‘reality show’ around what they were really selling, the context changed just enough to close the deal with few questions. I suppose we can thank Donald Trump and “The Apprentice” for that, too.
    4. See this post for my reasons for saying the Firstline sales pitch is deceptive. It’s self-explanatory.
    5. I have not personally attacked your husband, unless his name is Wright Thurston or Trevor Keyes, in which case your defense has just become indefensible. Why do you insist on assuming I have, and further assuming that you are therefore given license to attack me? You don’t know me and you don’t know my son, but would you really attack a veteran who spent four years in the Army? No? Then quit hacking on my kid…and hope yours never has to spend time on active military duty or in Fresno selling alarm systems.
54. Brooke | January 28th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
    

    I think that comparing selling door to door in Fresno, CA to serving in a war zone is a little extreme, but that is neither here nor there. The thing is that you have personally attacked my husband because he worked for Firstline in their summer sales program for 7 years. All I was trying to say is that everyone uses their own pitch and some are honest and some are not. Thankfully, neither Wright nor Trevor are my husbands. And while I still wholeheartedly disagree with your views. They are just that, your views. And I have my own. I know what kind of man my husband is, and so it doesn’t really matter what anyone else might think of him. And, I’m sorry for being rude. That is not the person I normally am. I offer my apology for being less than curteous I hope you’ll understand that I just spent a stressful day spent taking my 4 month old baby daughter to doctors to try to find out why she won’t eat. I came home and read this and it was the straw that broke the camels back. I hope your son has a better experience in another job.

55. karoli | January 28th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
    

    No ma’am, not making the comparison. My son is a partially disabled veteran of the United States Army who was attending college last year on the GI bill when he was recruited to go to to Fresno. No comparison, just extending the timeline.

    Also, I think you are attributing some comments to me that I did not make. Here are some direct quotes from me:

    My criticism isn’t directed toward those of you out there knocking on the doors. I don’t think you’re unethical, but I do think you’ve been taught some deceptive sales techniques, including slamming residents who have another security system. (I am using the term ’slamming’ in the telecommunications sense of a smooth and subtle pitch where the customer doesn’t realize they’re switching companies until after the fact, even with the confirmation of their ‘information’ on the phone.)

    The problem isn’t the concept of direct sales. It’s this concept of direct sales, where students are dropped into areas that have already been heavily saturated with this type of approach and left to their own devices to make that quota using a hard-sell approach that involves entry into the homes of the people they’re selling to.

    Others here have made far more sweeping indictments than I — I think they’re really the ones who you’re angry with.

    I hope your child is better and that your husband continues to succeed — I truly do.

56. Spencer | January 28th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
    

    Well I have already posted but here it goes again. None of these kids work as employees for first line. They work for themsleves. Thier sales pitch is at there discretion. As does any buisness they must use thier own resources such as a cellphone, buisness cards, information sheets, etc to stay in buisness. Any time one buisness does buisness with another company thier is a contract invloved which is very detailed. If the whole prodigy thing was suposed to be a part of the deal it should have been in a contract with all its contigencies and promises. When a company relises that they are provideing services for a bad or dishonest company they can quit. No one was forced into fresno, they signed in thier contract were there sales ares would be. I mean if any company finds another company to do thier sales they tell them were they want sales made. If a comapny had its place of buisness in fresno they dont want people selling in Miami. This is common sense. As for those people who may or may not be getting thier paychecks they can do what is called a “Class Action Suit” and if they were smart enough to have contracts they can win. If they didn’t have clear contracts that entailed what service they would provide and what they would recive then they deserve what they get. Who cares if Firstline is good or bad all of these people who worked as independant contractors for them took a calculated risk and signed a contract. People do this every day and things dont always go good. Buisnees deals go bad for some and great for other, this is life. Lets just be honest you dont see the succesfull people pointing fingers and crying about what other people did to them. You see them acting for them selves and finding the way to become succesfull in a way that suites them. I feel bad for the poor souls who always look to find who did them wrong and why nothing is there fault. We see these people in lots places, some even end up holding card board on the side of the roads.

    “It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.”
    -Teddy Roosevelt

    I hope your son was a better soldier than he is a buisness man. I hope he took responsibility for his own actions and accepted the consequences. When I think of Military men I think of men of great Inegrity, honor, and hard work. I hope that an alarm system company couldnt take this away from our fine soldiers just by telling them “Here is the pitch and this is how its done.”

57. karoli | January 28th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
    

    Spencer,

    As I said before and will repeat for the last time — you can aim at me here on the site, but your gratuitous slams on someone you do not know are not going to be tolerated.

    Read this carefully: When you tell someone they are a reality show contestant, the idea of being ’self-employed’ goes completely away. Again — it’s the filter and the deception that matters.

    As I’ve said before, it’s his bad for letting himself be deceived, but the many, many who were speaks more to the quality of the lie than the lie itself.

    They could’ve just said it’s a summer sales job. But they didn’t. They even made pretty and flashy DVDs and fed those out regularly to convince people it was part of a larger production called “The Prodigy”.

    It was sneaky, deceptive recruiting and intentionally so. Save your Teddy Roosevelt-isms for someone who cares. This is, as far as I’m concerned, a dead discussion, given Firstline’s bankruptcy and the impending public exposure of the deception.

    If you haven’t served in the military, keep your hopes to yourself. He was honorably discharged and served the likes of you for four years.

58. blank | January 28th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
    

    inexcusable–

    it is absolutely inexcusable the deceit and lies they used on these kids. unfortunately my friend got caught up in this scam and came back in debt. i dare you to say that he’s “whining” and pointing fingers at other people. he’s a hard working person who is now working the debt off as many hours as possible, and going to school. So come to me with stupid quotes, insults and heres what i say:

    Those people deliberately scammed these kids, wagging a reality show prize in their faces, used them, and threw them away. If you call them personally stupid and not taking responsibility for their actions, then you are an arrogant fool. Get over yourself.

    but you know what, Firstline? heres what i say–
    if anything i thank you for one thing, you taught my friend to go and pick himself up again when he gets knocked down and kicked with insults. hes going to get on with his life and when he’s out of school and has a good job he’s going to look back and know that when all is said and done, he won.

    Thank you Firstline, (not the sales people, the people who saw it fitting to lie others for business) for benefiting our society and showing us there are people low enough to twist and use the dreams of kids to their own benefit, leaving them to pick up the mess, congratulations.

    Karoli, i’m sorry your son got caught up in it, though if anything I hope he picks himself up again and perseveres through this tough time to a better one.

59. Aaron | February 4th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
    

    One thing I never saw mentioned here is worker’s compensation insurance. Employers are required by law to carry it for employees. If salesmen for the company are considered “independent contractors” instead of “employees,” then that saves a truckload of money on worker’s comp insurance. It also means the employer doesn’t have to meet minimum wage requirements. Couple that with the supposed insulation from litigation and it’s a pretty slick setup.

    I sold Dish Network door-to-door in and around Fresno in early 2004 and made $500 in a month and a half, from a classified ad that promised $1,500-$2,500 a month to start. In the setup I was in, the salesman knocks on the door, sells a dish setup (although we weren’t paid any extra for, say, selling the customer on a DVR system or the America’s Top 180 programming package instead of the America’s Top 60, even though those resulted in higher monthly revenues for EchoStar), then during the close, gets the customer’s order information, address, social security number and $5 (the salesman could waive it but it would be deducted from his commission… I hardly ever had cash on me to make change so I was notorious for coming back with baggies filled with $5 in nickels and pennies). Then, at the end of the night, all the sales people that went out together would head back to the office in the third floor of the old control tower at the Chandler Airport, and one of the two or three people that did office work would run each order’s name, address and SSN for a credit check. If a customer didn’t pass the credit check, a rejection letter was sent out, including contact info for the credit bureaus. If the customer’s credit was OK, someone working the phones would call to set up an install appointment. That’s where the risk of buyer’s remorse was most dangerous (the wife told me to cancel, or some other excuse, usually). The customer could also BR on us when the installer would show up, and sales staff weren’t paid until the install was final and the paperwork was all signed, including the one-year commitment at a time when Dish itself was advertising no commitment. So from all that, I only made $500, and I had the built-in advantages of having no tattoos, having a normal haircut (with regular showers) and not smoking. When it comes to money, most people respond better to someone who doesn’t look like he just got out of prison, who doesn’t have unkempt, greasy hair and who doesn’t reek of cigarette smoke.