Welcome to Nixonland. The tour starts here.

by Karoli on August 13, 2009 · 39 comments

During the election I immersed myself in history as a way of understanding the tactics and divisions that arose during the primaries and the general election. One of the most brilliant was Rick Perlstein’s Nixonland. The lessons I learned from that book and a look-back at the history of Nixon’s rise, spectacular fall, and emergent gaping divide are no less relevant in today’s world of health care debates and town hall meetings gone mad.

Nixon’s message to the insecure and hard-working

Here’s what progressives can never, ever let themselves forget about Nixon: He successfully turned traditional alignments and narratives on their head, using his own anger, bitterness and perennial insecurity as a prototype to speak to the fear and prejudice of middle class Americans across the nation. He spoke to their inner sense that what they had was somehow threatened by what others didn’t have.

The long-standing effectiveness of Nixon’s strategy lingers today. When Republicans stand before senior citizens and sympathetically coo that yes, they’re right to be concerned that they were justified in their fear that the government would “pull the plug on Grandma”, when they stoke the fear by telling those seniors “they have every right to fear…”, Nixon is sitting on their shoulder writing the playbook, word by sympathetic word.

Perlstein, pg 747-748:

“I have written of how, as these furies advanced, this man Nixon was able to be so stubbornly successful in answering Americans’ yearning for quiet; but that, even so…Nixon also rose by stoking and exploiting anger and resentment, rooted in the anger and resentment at the center of his character. For what was his injunction to join his Silent Majority if not also an invitation to see one’s neighbors as aliens, and to believe that what was alien would destroy us?

Aliens and Patriots

Then, what was alien were those angry blacks in the inner cities burning with the humiliation of generations enslaved, freed, and oppressed. What was alien were the young people with long hair and college educations marching against a war begun “in the wrong time and the wrong place with the wrong country.”

Then wasn’t much different from now. Throughout the years, Nixon’s archetypes have been locked into place and groomed by his successors: Ronald Reagan, George HW Bush, George W. Bush, and the assorted students of Nixonian strategies: Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove, Pat Buchanan, et al. Over the years, these men have been aided and abetted by the high representatives of Nixon’s “Silent Majority”: James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, and the shadow people who finance and advance their agendas.

Progressives are not exempt either, as Perlstein points out (same page references):

“I have written of liberals’ rage at the rise of Richard Nixon, the Nixon of the Checkers Speech, who so brilliantly co-opted the liberals’ populism, channeling it into a white middle-class rage at the sophisticates, the well-born, the “best circles”– all those who looked down their noses at ‘you and me’ (a favorite phrase of Ronald Reagan’s, who was both a student and a teacher of Richard Nixon’s), whose aggravating moral one-upmanship seemed so often to Nixon’s people to license moral relativism; a ‘torygood of change’ that sneered imperiously at the simple faiths of ordinary folk, their simple patriotism, their simple pleasures. I have written of these liberals’ simple faiths, too, compared them to the drama staged by the Henry Fonda character in Twelve Angry Men; the belief that if only Nixon’s poeple could truly see reason, grasp “the responsible literature in the field,” their prejudices would melt away, their true interests would be recognized — and they would end up liberals, too.

I have written of a cult of “American consensus” that rose up among the punditocracy and reached its apogee with the landslide defeat of Barry Goldwater — their fervent imagining, alongside Lyndon Johnson’s, that “these are the most hopeful times since Christ was born in Bethlehem,” that America was united and at peace and would forever be, if only “extremists” stopped stirring up the pot. And I have written about the kind of intellectual self-repression it took to believe this: that the demonic furies of race and war were gathering even as the words were written, that America has always been divided and always will be…” – emphasis mine

The words that should reach in and chill progressives (liberals, Democrats, whatever you want to call us) are the ones that start with the “if only…”

  • If only people would quit believing the lies of the mainstream media and investigate for themselves…
  • If only people would realize that Democrats are not acting against their interests…
  • If only people could get over their racism…
  • If only we all believed that yes, we can…

“If-onlies” are the blind spot in progressives’ rear view mirror. “If-onlies” are wishful thinking. As Perlstein rightly points out, we live in a divided country and the line falls between what we hope for and what exists. Progressives see hope and reach for the change to move toward it. Conservatives, that silent majority, act on the fear that what they have will be forever lost to them as the necessary price of progress.

The fierce divide

Everyone shows up at town halls, imagining our President as Hitler or the ‘extremists’ as puppets of the right, speaking for the status quo and moneyed interests instead of considering others. The right pulls out every rabbit from their fear hat and sends them out to deliver one consistent message: Those guys want to take away what you have earned with blood, sweat and tears.

Reality: The conservative strategy is one that involves speaking to the darkest, most deep-seated fears of that “Silent Majority”, the ones that have served them well for 35 years. Their framing of the health care debate is intended to speak one message: “What you guard and hold dear is at risk. The liberals want to take it away from you. Not only do they want to take it away from you, they want to give it away to that guy you’re afraid of.”

The politicians speaking in populist terms are not progressives. They’re conservatives.

There has been a lot of talk about how the Republican strategy to stall and ultimately defeat health care reform is purely racist. I don’t believe that. I don’t think it’s about race as much as it is about USING race to stoke the fear that the lives people have built for themselves is about to be swept away by someone who is “alien”. This is why the birthers, with their insidious claims that Barack Obama isn’t really American have gained such traction. It frames him as alien, and to be feared as the one who will take away from them to give to those who are in need. That was step one. Step two was to tell Granny the liberals wanted her dead. What could be scarier to senior citizens and their children (those baby-boomers who comprise the middle class and large sector of voting/taxpaying public) than the idea that a)their own health care benefits were at risk; and b)if they got too expensive, they’d just be offed?

Perlstein (same page reference):

“What Richard Nixon left behind was the very terms of our national self-image: a notion that there are two kinds of Americans. On the one side, the “Silent Majority.” The “nonshouters.” The middle-class, middle American, suburban, exurban, and rural coalition who call themselves, now, “Values voters,” “people of faith,” “patriots,” or even, simply, “Republicans” — and who feel themselves condescended to by snobby opinion-making elites, and who rage about un-Americans, anti-Christians, amoralists, aliens. On the other side are the “liberals,” the “cosmopolitans,” the “intellectuals,” the “professionals” — “Democrats,” who say they see shouting in opposition to injustice as a higher form of patriotism. Or say “live and let live.” Who believe that to have “values” has more to do with a willingness to extend aid to the downtrodden than where, or if, you happen to worship — but who look down on the first category as unwitting dupes of feckless elites who exploit sentimental pieties to aggrandize their wealth, start wars, ruin lives. Both populations — to speak in ideal types — are equally, essentially, tragically American. And both have learned to consider the other not quite American at all. The argument over Richard Nixon, pro and con, gave us the language for this war.” [emphasis mine]

Our national PNTS (Post-Nixon Traumatic Syndrome)

The current tone and tenor of the national debate over health care reform is classically Nixonian. We have locked ourselves into archetypes and scripts that were written 40 years ago. On the one side, the defenders of the elderly and weak have become the Republicans, while the crusaders for equality and access have become the Democrats. Dueling calls to ‘read the bill’, ‘have respect for Grandma’, and “keep Big Government out of our health care”, “fight the profit machines”, “give universal access to health care to all”, to “make health care affordable for all”, to “prevent ‘rationing’”, and above all, to make the entire effort so utterly confusing and fraught with enough fog that any thinking person would be afraid of the outcome have once again exposed the deep divide that exists between those who fear the loss of what they have and those who want to provide equal pathways to a more just and fair system, but lose their message in complex frames and messages.

We are suffering from PNTS – Post-Nixon Traumatic Syndrome. It’s easy enough to drown in the habit of political discourse we’re used to, but this time there’s a difference: We are ALL in danger of losing what we have. Whether we’re liberal or conservative, the health care crisis in this country has risen to a level where it’s entirely non-partisan and the Nixon dividing line has been pulled down, chalked over and drawn into a circle that encompasses us all, alien and native alike.

Consider Perlstein’s parting lines:

“Do Americans not hate each other enough to fantasize about killing one another, in cold blood, over political and cultural disagreements? It would be hard to argue they do not.

How did Nixonland end? It has not ended yet.”

Searching for the cure

We need a way to understand that we’re all facing a common enemy, that the Bin Laden of our debate exists and is a real threat to every single one of us, no matter who we are, where we live, what color we might be, or what political party we belong to. One place to start would be to hear the voices of those conservatives who do believe reform is necessary. Another would be for progressives to step back and truly listen to the concerns of those who oppose, with the understanding that the purpose of listening is to begin a dialogue that defines our common enemy.

The only time this country unites is when it is threatened by some outside force: Bin Laden, the “Communist” threat, Hitler, Stalin, and yes, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, and any other country that is perceived to threaten our safety and well-being.

This time we are threatened by an enemy within, and one of our own creation. Just as the banking system proved itself to be no friend of the common man, so too are the insurers and the pharmaceutical companies no friend of the common man in need of medical care and health care reform. If we can define the debate in a way that clearly frames the common threat, perhaps we can find ways to move the discussion out of Nixonland and back to America, where we share the same values, the same passions, the same fears, and for some, the hope that their children and children’s children will have a future of promise ahead of them.

Or, we can remain in Nixonland, where guns go to rallies and violence is not only a tragic result, but often a goal.

How will Nixonland end? It’s up to us to decide. We either go for another generation or two of deep, bitter division, or we begin right now to change the debate, find the common ground, find the ground we’ll never agree upon, and work from there.

We all have something we fear losing, but we all have more we hope to gain. Perhaps a focus on the potential gain instead of the potential loss is the pathway out of Nixonland to a place that’s greener, cleaner, and consists of one Commons that we all inhabit, instead of the open space with the canyon dividing us.

Cross-posted to The Bipartisan Report

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  • Rick Perlstein

    This is a great post. I wish more people would grasp the “as if” point–too many progressives believe that opposition can be overwhelmed with mere rationality.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    Hi Rick, and thank you so much for your comment, and writing such a great book. Nixon was one of the most divisive characters in history, and represents my momentary teenage political rebellion against my parents (both very liberal, yet I served on the youth contingent of CREEP. I have repented, many times over.)

    What I've been struggling with in this debate: 1) Keeping my temper; 2) Finding a strategy to undo the lies. As you say, opposition can't be overwhelmed with mere rationality, but finding an entry point to insert my own emotional exclamation points and put across the message that we have far too much to lose if we allow this effort to stall has proven to be a challenge.

    When one is facing a symphony orchestra, full gospel choir, and percussion ensemble all singing, playing and marching out of step and off-key, it proves difficult to step up and hit a high enough note to get anyone's attention! LOL…Wendell Potter has probably been the man with the most voice in this debate, yet he is largely ignored by the mainstream media.

    My personal reaction to seeing Lyndon LaRouche signs at a nearby town hall meeting painting President Obama as Hitler was visceral and powerful. I was repelled, of course, but others got a different message. I could see it in that lady's eyes (there's a photo of her a couple of posts back)…she was afraid and angry. Afraid of what she stood to lose if she had a fascist Nazi in the White House. Not rational at all…so if we can't overcome with rationality, how do we react with measured irrationality?

  • tracycoyle

    I will reserve comments on the topic for later but the “if only…” issue is one I deal with all the time. If only people will get informed; if only they will read the right materials; if only they would listen to the 'experts'; then they would think LIKE ME. I have found that position to be everything it is accused of being. I can read, listen, be informed and think DIFFERENTLY. That doesn't make me dumb, stupid, ignorant, delusional. It is possible to have two different opinions – neither 'wrong'. Any belief system when questioned will provoke a 'defensive' response. If people get informed, read all the right materials and listen to the experts and formulate a position, are then faced with others that disagree – either their 'belief' is wrong, or the other holders of a different position have 'done something wrong'. The possibility that a different result is possible is just NOT POSSIBLE.

    One of the problems with the current health care reform debate is that interpretation of the proposed bill is subject to personal bias/prejudices. Let me offer an example: Harry hates the government. Every time he turns around, he is being stopped by the police, audited by the IRS, losing in court. Sam loves the government. He served in the military, worked in the local city hall helping seniors, police returned a car stolen from him. A politician stands up at a meeting both men attend and says, “I'm from the government, and I am here to help.” Sam cheers and applauds. Harry fingers the key to the gun cabinet in his garage. To Sam, the offer of help is welcome. To Harry, the offer is just another time the government is going to screw him. Doesn't know how, doesn't know when, just that it is GOING to happen.

    The proponents of health care reform led by the government with an emphasis on it's involvement in the marketplace see and hear 'I'm from the government and am here to help' as a welcome addition to a marketplace that leaves people strewn in it's wake. The opponents of government led reform see and hear another attempt by government to interfere in their daily lives.

    We look around the world and hear stories of government involvement in health care and go, thanks, no thanks. Proponents proclaim, we are smarter, we learned the lessons, we will do it better, smarter.

    All the arguments for or against health care reform based on a reading of the proposed bill are subject to this bias/prejudice. So, I can look at both sides and see their 'interpretations'. In the end, for me, I have only two fundamental issues, one: is it Constitutional for government to offer a product in the marketplace designed to 'compete' with private companies? The answer is clearly, no. Two: is health care a right? The answer is no.

    The hate mongering, on both sides, is offensive. We on the right have been hearing vile and disgusting crap for 8 years. It has often appeared in the mainstream – Condi Rice in white face? Bush as Hitler, the joker, a vampire…all there. It was wrong then, but we seldom heard anything more than a token, “well, there are fanatics everywhere”. It is wrong now, but the tone has been set by years of quiet acceptance on the Left. By everyone? No, of course not. But the general acceptance 'encouraged' it.

    Harry has listened, seen the Left's tacit approval of the vile smears. Now, the Left proclaims it is trying to help everyone, do good. His experience, and mine, is that given a chance, the Left will do no such thing. Sanctuary cities, 'pull the plug on Terri', card check;

    Understand, I feel the same way about Republicans but for different reasons. I am not swayed by fear mongering, or 'fear of others', or 'fear of aliens'. I see the results of previous 'help' and fundamentally distrust government. A fundamental distrust shared by our Founding Fathers.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    Tracy, I knew I could count on you to offer a third perspective which is clearly the minority view but no less valid.

    To prove I heard you, I'm going to dispute your contention that it's not constitutional, with the same documents you use to defend its unconstitutionality. (Thank heavens we're not the final arbiters of these things…). I, of course, am going to rely on the general welfare clause of the Constitution with the requisite lookback to Hamilton and Madison's fundamental disagreement on it. This disagreement remains the same 230 years later, except that the Supreme Court affirmed Hamilton's interpretation of the clause. We can argue whether that decision was right or wrong, but ultimately such an argument is moot, given that it is a standing Supreme Court decision and therefore is the law of the land at this time. Similarly, if at some future point the Madison interpretation reverses the earlier decision, you will be correct and I will have to bow to the law of the land. Bottom line is that the constitutionality of health care reform and government's role in it is somewhat moot in the larger argument, for as long as the current decision remains current.

    When I first started mulling the fenceposts of this post in my head, I had a conversation we had had on Twitter in mind; namely, the one where you quite firmly reiterated your point made here: that two people can view the same facts and arrive at opposite conclusions. What I have appreciated about your discourse is that you acknowledge that my conclusion isn't made without some working knowledge of fact.

    For me, it is far easier to imagine having a debate about topics like this with the understanding that ideologies do drive how we view facts. What I have a great deal of difficulty with: Intentional distortions of truth to evoke an emotional response that stems from an ideological belief. The weeks-long hoo-ha over the advance directive counseling is a perfect example of that. It was originally conceived by conservatives, as a way to educate people about living wills and advance directives in an effort to save money on heroic life-prolonging measures by allowing seniors to choose whether they want such efforts before that day comes. Yet, in what I view as a stunning display of cynical manipulation, they chose that very measure as the evil that represents government control of health care, and today removed it from the bill entirely.

    I have a living will, so it doesn't affect me now and wouldn't have affected me then. I believe in them and know what their purpose is. I think most people at least have a concept of what they are. In this case, the tactic revealed the larger strategy (which I think we also knew to an extent), which was to play on that amorphous fear that something more powerful than the individual would somehow control the way they died.

    The appearance of Katy Abram on Hardball was extraordinarily telling. She represented exactly what we're talking about here. She was the questioner who asked about Socialism at a PA townhall (I think PA…). When pressed on her reasoning, she couldn't defend it at all. I actually felt sorry for her. And then I realized that feeling sorry for her was a bad thing, because it reinforced that 'liberal elite' impression that goes with the 'if onlies'. http://bit.ly/M9oj5

    Thanks again for adding to the discussion. I feel like it's helpful…just wish it were a dialogue we could have in a venue with more listeners, you know?

  • Zac

    This is mostly concerning your assessment of the Hardball episode.

    I'm glad to see you admit the flawed logic behind feeling sorry for Mrs. Abram. The larger problem is that many progressives see these kinds of interviews and assume that anyone with libertarian leanings is as uninformed as these people that Hardball loves to interview. Mrs. Abram is a novice in the political landscape and is motivated largely based on her intuition at this point. There is nothing wrong with that, and she should be encouraged to formulate her views more. That said, there are those of us that could easily handle those questions without thinking twice:

    1) Should Medicare be repealed? Yes.
    2) Should Medicaid be repealed? Yes.
    3) Should Social Security be repealed? Yes.
    4) Should members of Congress make almost $200k/year, have full benefits, and a pension for serving the country? Hell no.
    5) Should we ever have a federal budget deficit in the billions (much less trillions) of dollars? Hell no.
    6) Should members of Congress be allowed to serve for 20, 30, 40+ years? No.
    7) Should the government give money to people? Nope.

    The more difficult question would be, how do you go about making these changes without being unfair to those that have come to rely on these programs.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    More importantly, how do you go about refunding all contributions
    (with interest) for those programs? While everyone in the libertarian
    movement wants to call them entitlements, they conveniently forget
    that no one becomes “entitled” without paying into them (and their
    employers paying into them as well). All of those contributions, with
    interest, would have to be refunded to those who made them. I've
    worked 35 years, made my self-employment tax payments, as well as my
    withholdings from pay.

    Today on Hardball, John Culberson would not step up and say SS and
    Medicare should be repealed, nor would he say they shouldn't have been
    passed, because, as he admitted…without them, people would die.

  • http://www.facebook.com/zac.howland Zac Howland

    Personally, I'd gladly give up the contributions I've already paid into the system in order to not have to make any further contributions into a system that I have no desire to obtain the “benefits” from (and likely, by the time I retire, the system will be so bankrupt that I likely won't get any benefit anyway). Granted, as someone with about 20 years of more contributions into the giant Ponzi Scheme, I completely understand where you're coming from.

    On idea I have to settle that (which, admittedly, would be rather hard on a single fiscal year budget) is to give everyone a 1-time payout in logarithmic fashion. For example, if you are currently over age 65, you get a 1-time payout of $500,000 (think of it as your last SS/Medicare/Medicaid check). The amount received scales down to 0 at age 20. Thus, its fair to those that rely on the system, and still gets rid of it quickly.

    The problem is not that people would die without them; the problem is that people have come to rely on them in the first place. Instead of encouraging self-sufficiency, programs like this encourage dependence. However, the biggest problem is one that all Ponzi Schemes run into: eventually you run out of people to take money from and are unable to pay those you have promised money to.

  • tracycoyle

    Maybe it is only semantics to some, but it may be legal, but not Constitutional – IMO. Example: the Kelo decision – a taking of private property to give to a private developer on the premise that the increased property tax revenue serves a public good would offend the Founders -IMO. It surely offends me. But it is the law of the land and yet, wrong. If we go back to the 30's and look at all the attempts to change government unConstitutionally, a few got through because of threats to the Supreme court – adding 'additional jurists to support those older jurists burdened by the load'.

    We have social security because it dealt with a need not being met in the marketplace: pensions and retirements were very rare. The argument was that government had to address problems that while specific to individuals (an area that the Federal government has NO business in – those are states issues) had grown to a nationwide problem. Whether it was right or wrong is irrelevant right now – people have come to rely on it. As another commenter pointed out, the idea that we WANT individuals to rely on government support – in Social Security's case for the rest of their lives – is a terrible, terrible premise. At some point EVERYONE comes to rely on government, something never envisioned by our Founders and that level of government involvement in individual lives, especially from the Federal Government, sends danger signals to anyone grounded in the founding principles.

    The advance directives. The government doesn't like to be ignored. If it recommends something and finds that it is being ignored, it orders it. It might take 5, or 10, or 20 years to get from point A to point B, but it does get there. the bill could have been written to recommend such a conversation, but to MANDATE it happen to everyone on Medicare every 5 years? My opinion is that when government finds a program not having the intended result, it doesn't eliminate it, it reforms it, spends more money, gets more specific: it doubles down. What is the intent of the advance directives? I am glad you have a living will – I have had one since 19. Lots of people don't. Should they? Of course, but creating a system to 'encourage' them….example:
    Is it a good idea to wear a helmet riding a bike (or motorcycle)? Of course. So, it was recommended, and when few people changed their behavior, it was mandated.
    Mandating good behavior is the 'nanny state' we complain so much about. Yes, it might be a good idea, but government MAKING us behave in a specific manner because it is GOOD for us…you know…is wrong.

    I took a course in college (a women's studies course) on politics. I found it very telling that in a class of about 30, a majority poli-sci majors, couldn't define capitalism, socialism, communism or worse, explain any differences.

    But, it depends on what the definition of is, is. Is the United States under Obamacare socialist? No. Is it creeping towards a socialist type system? Of course. IF you define it as a system of government controlled provisions of individual responsibilities. That is not the textbook definition. The distinction is lost on most people.

    Our positions are irreconcilable. Federal Government support of individuals is wrong. That is not the purpose of government. People protesting and shouting for the government to “DO something” are looking in the wrong place. I don't accept the premise that when problems are really big, only the government can be either the only, or major part of the solution. If you give government the power to provide, you give government the power to control. And a government with control over part of your personal life and personal behaviors, is a government out of control and too big for it's britches.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    You're right. Our positions are irreconcilable with regard to
    government involvement. I would love to be free of all government
    involvement, free to do what I want, when I want, but we are a nation
    of people and a nation of laws. When people get to the point of being
    victimized (and yes, they are being victimized) by corporate entities
    who seek to profit at their loss, what else IS there besides
    government to intervene? And more to the point, how does a society in
    a nation by, of, and for the people deal compassionately and
    rationally with people like @davidgs, who have exhausted their
    individual ability to pay for a special needs child who will die
    without regular medical care?

    These aren't easy questions. They're not reconcilable, yes. But I do
    believe there are compromises, if only a reasonable dialogue could be
    had without the fearmongering and hyperbole.

  • tracycoyle

    I don't oppose government. I think it is a libertarian mistake to believe that society can function without government – government has a purpose.

    I am not going to defend corporations. I have no need to. IN GENERAL, a corporation can not 'victimize' you unless you engage with it. If a corporation adheres to a contract agreed to by the parties – to the detriment of the individual, it is a failure of the individual to be aware of the possible consequences. Mortgage lenders are learning this the hard way as people walk away from their mortgages legally. When a business commits fraud, it should be punished fully and forcibly. When a consumer commits fraud, they should get a similar response.

    I don't think corporations are any more saintly than the average person. But people 'expect' things that are not true. (A client once told me their mortgage company just started raising the payments for no reason – they had an adjustable rate mortgage. Did they KNOW they had an adjustable rate mortgage, they said no, but their signatures were on the documents.)

    The point I wanted to make, and will do so here is that an inability to get insurance because of pre-existing conditions is not a defect of the system, it is a function of it. That function doesn't need to be fixed, or reformed, or replaced. The inability to afford insurance is not a defect of the system, it is a function of the system. It doesn't need to be fixed, reformed or replaced.

    No one in this country – as a general rule – is unable to receive life saving medical care because they can't afford it. Is it perfect or convenient? No. I don't know davidgs' situation but I guarantee the child can get the care necessary.

    There is no 'insurance' for pre-existing conditions. By definition, it is impossible. A person with a pre-existing condition wants someone to share the cost, share the burden. I don't think that is wrong, I just believe they have no right to it. Communities can form around such people or situations and pool resources to provide assistance. Such groups can even petition the government to do so and if enough people agree to do so, obtain such support. But don't call it insurance. It is cost sharing. Those groups should do so at the level of government closest to the issue – community or state.

    Of course, we are faced with a 'nationwide' problem and so the desire is that a federal solution is sought. IF a proposal were being made to create and fund a pool for assistance or support of those that need cost sharing because of pre-existing conditions or inability to afford insurance, I think you would have a majority support from the nation – Americans are naturally sympathetic and charitable.

    That is not what is being offered. What is being offered is a dramatic change in the way health care is provided in this country. Because people can not afford insurance, because others have significant medical issues and can not obtain insurance, does NOT mean the system is broken. It does not mean the system has to be changed.

    I would like to see some changes that I believe will expand affordability to many people and reduce costs to everyone. However, NO change can be made to insurance to allow for pre-existing conditions. It is just not insurance if you do so.

    I don't like that government is being used for these purposes. It puts people in the position of being dependent upon government – it encourages the growth of government. As a society we can decide that is what we want – I will oppose it. Seek a system to help those that need it without changing the system that works for a hundred million people and I will support it.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    Two points: 1) Can you point me to the guarantee that Woody will
    receive the care he needs? David appears to be at the last measures
    now. 2) I don't want to be dependent on government. I want the option
    to pay for a plan that I can afford. If insurers provide it, great. If
    it's a public plan option, great. I don't want to depend on
    government, yet that's what will happen if I'm not able to get to a
    place where I can pay someone a reasonable amount for reasonable
    coverage. To me, that's the heart of the argument.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    Two points: 1) Can you point me to the guarantee that Woody will
    receive the care he needs? David appears to be at the last measures
    now. 2) I don't want to be dependent on government. I want the option
    to pay for a plan that I can afford. If insurers provide it, great. If
    it's a public plan option, great. I don't want to depend on
    government, yet that's what will happen if I'm not able to get to a
    place where I can pay someone a reasonable amount for reasonable
    coverage. To me, that's the heart of the argument.

  • tracycoyle

    I can call up the medical system that provides Victoria's care and say: we can't afford the care, our child will die without it, can I bring the child in. They will and have said, we will make the appointment now. I know this system exists in Wisconsin – we used it. I know it exists in Illinois – my brother used it. I know this system exists in California – I used it (20 years ago, but there is no indication it has changed). There were/are medical bills and reasonable agreements to pay it – we are paying $250 a month on a $60,000 bill that continues to grow monthly.

    I would love to buy a car. I can't afford one. I don't think government should be used to make cars more affordable, or to give me support so I can afford one.

    There may not be a plan – at all, or that you can afford. There is no such thing as an insurance plan for a pre-existing condition (imagine a homeowners policy you could buy while the house was burning down!) Given all the criteria, there may not be a policy available to you at ANY reasonable – or even unreasonable price. That is not a problem with the system.

    Example: you have a 90% probability of needing $100,000 care in the next 10 years. $100,000 * .9 / 10 = $750 a month. If you can only afford $250, there is no way to provide you with affordable insurance.

    That is a simplistic example but it addresses the issue.

  • tracycoyle

    I can call up the medical system that provides Victoria's care and say: we can't afford the care, our child will die without it, can I bring the child in. They will and have said, we will make the appointment now. I know this system exists in Wisconsin – we used it. I know it exists in Illinois – my brother used it. I know this system exists in California – I used it (20 years ago, but there is no indication it has changed). There were/are medical bills and reasonable agreements to pay it – we are paying $250 a month on a $60,000 bill that continues to grow monthly.

    I would love to buy a car. I can't afford one. I don't think government should be used to make cars more affordable, or to give me support so I can afford one.

    There may not be a plan – at all, or that you can afford. There is no such thing as an insurance plan for a pre-existing condition (imagine a homeowners policy you could buy while the house was burning down!) Given all the criteria, there may not be a policy available to you at ANY reasonable – or even unreasonable price. That is not a problem with the system.

    Example: you have a 90% probability of needing $100,000 care in the next 10 years. $100,000 * .9 / 10 = $750 a month. If you can only afford $250, there is no way to provide you with affordable insurance.

    That is a simplistic example but it addresses the issue.

  • tracycoyle

    I can call up the medical system that provides Victoria's care and say: we can't afford the care, our child will die without it, can I bring the child in. They will and have said, we will make the appointment now. I know this system exists in Wisconsin – we used it. I know it exists in Illinois – my brother used it. I know this system exists in California – I used it (20 years ago, but there is no indication it has changed). There were/are medical bills and reasonable agreements to pay it – we are paying $250 a month on a $60,000 bill that continues to grow monthly.

    I would love to buy a car. I can't afford one. I don't think government should be used to make cars more affordable, or to give me support so I can afford one.

    There may not be a plan – at all, or that you can afford. There is no such thing as an insurance plan for a pre-existing condition (imagine a homeowners policy you could buy while the house was burning down!) Given all the criteria, there may not be a policy available to you at ANY reasonable – or even unreasonable price. That is not a problem with the system.

    Example: you have a 90% probability of needing $100,000 care in the next 10 years. $100,000 * .9 / 10 = $750 a month. If you can only afford $250, there is no way to provide you with affordable insurance.

    That is a simplistic example but it addresses the issue.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    The difference between your car analogy and health is that health care
    is not optional. I will pay it one way or the other; either by
    contributing to a pool (for-profit) or by losing all our assets. The
    program you refer to is the one that David talks about being
    discontinued. It is also being discontinued in California.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    The difference between your car analogy and health is that health care
    is not optional. I will pay it one way or the other; either by
    contributing to a pool (for-profit) or by losing all our assets. The
    program you refer to is the one that David talks about being
    discontinued. It is also being discontinued in California.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    The difference between your car analogy and health is that health care
    is not optional. I will pay it one way or the other; either by
    contributing to a pool (for-profit) or by losing all our assets. The
    program you refer to is the one that David talks about being
    discontinued. It is also being discontinued in California.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    The difference between your car analogy and health is that health care
    is not optional. I will pay it one way or the other; either by
    contributing to a pool (for-profit) or by losing all our assets. The
    program you refer to is the one that David talks about being
    discontinued. It is also being discontinued in California.

  • tracycoyle

    It is being discontinued (I would wager formally) in California because California is 19 billion in the hole for it's budget and getting worse! But hey, the smelt will LIVE!

    While I agree the car analogy lacks complete substance, we don't have public transportation such that it is capable of dealing with our personal situation (V's disability). A car is necessary. Health CARE might not be optional, but health INSURANCE is. Until you need it, or can no longer qualify for it.

    There are many 20 somethings that will spend less than $1000 over the next decade on medical care for which insurance will be an expense unnecessary. But for a very small minority, their expenses will be catastrophic and sudden. No insurance will doom them financially, now, and probably for the future.

    Risk, reward. It is the system. We can't afford insurance at any 'reasonable' price. So we don't have any. Many young people will look at the potential outlay, the expense and make a determination – one that the current bill will short circuit.

  • tracycoyle

    It is being discontinued (I would wager formally) in California because California is 19 billion in the hole for it's budget and getting worse! But hey, the smelt will LIVE!

    While I agree the car analogy lacks complete substance, we don't have public transportation such that it is capable of dealing with our personal situation (V's disability). A car is necessary. Health CARE might not be optional, but health INSURANCE is. Until you need it, or can no longer qualify for it.

    There are many 20 somethings that will spend less than $1000 over the next decade on medical care for which insurance will be an expense unnecessary. But for a very small minority, their expenses will be catastrophic and sudden. No insurance will doom them financially, now, and probably for the future.

    Risk, reward. It is the system. We can't afford insurance at any 'reasonable' price. So we don't have any. Many young people will look at the potential outlay, the expense and make a determination – one that the current bill will short circuit.

  • tracycoyle

    It is being discontinued (I would wager formally) in California because California is 19 billion in the hole for it's budget and getting worse! But hey, the smelt will LIVE!

    While I agree the car analogy lacks complete substance, we don't have public transportation such that it is capable of dealing with our personal situation (V's disability). A car is necessary. Health CARE might not be optional, but health INSURANCE is. Until you need it, or can no longer qualify for it.

    There are many 20 somethings that will spend less than $1000 over the next decade on medical care for which insurance will be an expense unnecessary. But for a very small minority, their expenses will be catastrophic and sudden. No insurance will doom them financially, now, and probably for the future.

    Risk, reward. It is the system. We can't afford insurance at any 'reasonable' price. So we don't have any. Many young people will look at the potential outlay, the expense and make a determination – one that the current bill will short circuit.

  • tracycoyle

    It is being discontinued (I would wager formally) in California because California is 19 billion in the hole for it's budget and getting worse! But hey, the smelt will LIVE!

    While I agree the car analogy lacks complete substance, we don't have public transportation such that it is capable of dealing with our personal situation (V's disability). A car is necessary. Health CARE might not be optional, but health INSURANCE is. Until you need it, or can no longer qualify for it.

    There are many 20 somethings that will spend less than $1000 over the next decade on medical care for which insurance will be an expense unnecessary. But for a very small minority, their expenses will be catastrophic and sudden. No insurance will doom them financially, now, and probably for the future.

    Risk, reward. It is the system. We can't afford insurance at any 'reasonable' price. So we don't have any. Many young people will look at the potential outlay, the expense and make a determination – one that the current bill will short circuit.

  • tracycoyle

    It is being discontinued (I would wager formally) in California because California is 19 billion in the hole for it's budget and getting worse! But hey, the smelt will LIVE!

    While I agree the car analogy lacks complete substance, we don't have public transportation such that it is capable of dealing with our personal situation (V's disability). A car is necessary. Health CARE might not be optional, but health INSURANCE is. Until you need it, or can no longer qualify for it.

    There are many 20 somethings that will spend less than $1000 over the next decade on medical care for which insurance will be an expense unnecessary. But for a very small minority, their expenses will be catastrophic and sudden. No insurance will doom them financially, now, and probably for the future.

    Risk, reward. It is the system. We can't afford insurance at any 'reasonable' price. So we don't have any. Many young people will look at the potential outlay, the expense and make a determination – one that the current bill will short circuit.

  • tracycoyle

    I don't oppose government. I think it is a libertarian mistake to believe that society can function without government – government has a purpose.

    I am not going to defend corporations. I have no need to. IN GENERAL, a corporation can not 'victimize' you unless you engage with it. If a corporation adheres to a contract agreed to by the parties – to the detriment of the individual, it is a failure of the individual to be aware of the possible consequences. Mortgage lenders are learning this the hard way as people walk away from their mortgages legally. When a business commits fraud, it should be punished fully and forcibly. When a consumer commits fraud, they should get a similar response.

    I don't think corporations are any more saintly than the average person. But people 'expect' things that are not true. (A client once told me their mortgage company just started raising the payments for no reason – they had an adjustable rate mortgage. Did they KNOW they had an adjustable rate mortgage, they said no, but their signatures were on the documents.)

    The point I wanted to make, and will do so here is that an inability to get insurance because of pre-existing conditions is not a defect of the system, it is a function of it. That function doesn't need to be fixed, or reformed, or replaced. The inability to afford insurance is not a defect of the system, it is a function of the system. It doesn't need to be fixed, reformed or replaced.

    No one in this country – as a general rule – is unable to receive life saving medical care because they can't afford it. Is it perfect or convenient? No. I don't know davidgs' situation but I guarantee the child can get the care necessary.

    There is no 'insurance' for pre-existing conditions. By definition, it is impossible. A person with a pre-existing condition wants someone to share the cost, share the burden. I don't think that is wrong, I just believe they have no right to it. Communities can form around such people or situations and pool resources to provide assistance. Such groups can even petition the government to do so and if enough people agree to do so, obtain such support. But don't call it insurance. It is cost sharing. Those groups should do so at the level of government closest to the issue – community or state.

    Of course, we are faced with a 'nationwide' problem and so the desire is that a federal solution is sought. IF a proposal were being made to create and fund a pool for assistance or support of those that need cost sharing because of pre-existing conditions or inability to afford insurance, I think you would have a majority support from the nation – Americans are naturally sympathetic and charitable.

    That is not what is being offered. What is being offered is a dramatic change in the way health care is provided in this country. Because people can not afford insurance, because others have significant medical issues and can not obtain insurance, does NOT mean the system is broken. It does not mean the system has to be changed.

    I would like to see some changes that I believe will expand affordability to many people and reduce costs to everyone. However, NO change can be made to insurance to allow for pre-existing conditions. It is just not insurance if you do so.

    I don't like that government is being used for these purposes. It puts people in the position of being dependent upon government – it encourages the growth of government. As a society we can decide that is what we want – I will oppose it. Seek a system to help those that need it without changing the system that works for a hundred million people and I will support it.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    Two points: 1) Can you point me to the guarantee that Woody will
    receive the care he needs? David appears to be at the last measures
    now. 2) I don't want to be dependent on government. I want the option
    to pay for a plan that I can afford. If insurers provide it, great. If
    it's a public plan option, great. I don't want to depend on
    government, yet that's what will happen if I'm not able to get to a
    place where I can pay someone a reasonable amount for reasonable
    coverage. To me, that's the heart of the argument.

  • tracycoyle

    I can call up the medical system that provides Victoria's care and say: we can't afford the care, our child will die without it, can I bring the child in. They will and have said, we will make the appointment now. I know this system exists in Wisconsin – we used it. I know it exists in Illinois – my brother used it. I know this system exists in California – I used it (20 years ago, but there is no indication it has changed). There were/are medical bills and reasonable agreements to pay it – we are paying $250 a month on a $60,000 bill that continues to grow monthly.

    I would love to buy a car. I can't afford one. I don't think government should be used to make cars more affordable, or to give me support so I can afford one.

    There may not be a plan – at all, or that you can afford. There is no such thing as an insurance plan for a pre-existing condition (imagine a homeowners policy you could buy while the house was burning down!) Given all the criteria, there may not be a policy available to you at ANY reasonable – or even unreasonable price. That is not a problem with the system.

    Example: you have a 90% probability of needing $100,000 care in the next 10 years. $100,000 * .9 / 10 = $750 a month. If you can only afford $250, there is no way to provide you with affordable insurance.

    That is a simplistic example but it addresses the issue.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    The difference between your car analogy and health is that health care
    is not optional. I will pay it one way or the other; either by
    contributing to a pool (for-profit) or by losing all our assets. The
    program you refer to is the one that David talks about being
    discontinued. It is also being discontinued in California.

  • tracycoyle

    It is being discontinued (I would wager formally) in California because California is 19 billion in the hole for it's budget and getting worse! But hey, the smelt will LIVE!

    While I agree the car analogy lacks complete substance, we don't have public transportation such that it is capable of dealing with our personal situation (V's disability). A car is necessary. Health CARE might not be optional, but health INSURANCE is. Until you need it, or can no longer qualify for it.

    There are many 20 somethings that will spend less than $1000 over the next decade on medical care for which insurance will be an expense unnecessary. But for a very small minority, their expenses will be catastrophic and sudden. No insurance will doom them financially, now, and probably for the future.

    Risk, reward. It is the system. We can't afford insurance at any 'reasonable' price. So we don't have any. Many young people will look at the potential outlay, the expense and make a determination – one that the current bill will short circuit.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    You're right. Our positions are irreconcilable with regard to
    government involvement. I would love to be free of all government
    involvement, free to do what I want, when I want, but we are a nation
    of people and a nation of laws. When people get to the point of being
    victimized (and yes, they are being victimized) by corporate entities
    who seek to profit at their loss, what else IS there besides
    government to intervene? And more to the point, how does a society in
    a nation by, of, and for the people deal compassionately and
    rationally with people like @davidgs, who have exhausted their
    individual ability to pay for a special needs child who will die
    without regular medical care?

    These aren't easy questions. They're not reconcilable, yes. But I do
    believe there are compromises, if only a reasonable dialogue could be
    had without the fearmongering and hyperbole.

  • tracycoyle

    I don't oppose government. I think it is a libertarian mistake to believe that society can function without government – government has a purpose.

    I am not going to defend corporations. I have no need to. IN GENERAL, a corporation can not 'victimize' you unless you engage with it. If a corporation adheres to a contract agreed to by the parties – to the detriment of the individual, it is a failure of the individual to be aware of the possible consequences. Mortgage lenders are learning this the hard way as people walk away from their mortgages legally. When a business commits fraud, it should be punished fully and forcibly. When a consumer commits fraud, they should get a similar response.

    I don't think corporations are any more saintly than the average person. But people 'expect' things that are not true. (A client once told me their mortgage company just started raising the payments for no reason – they had an adjustable rate mortgage. Did they KNOW they had an adjustable rate mortgage, they said no, but their signatures were on the documents.)

    The point I wanted to make, and will do so here is that an inability to get insurance because of pre-existing conditions is not a defect of the system, it is a function of it. That function doesn't need to be fixed, or reformed, or replaced. The inability to afford insurance is not a defect of the system, it is a function of the system. It doesn't need to be fixed, reformed or replaced.

    No one in this country – as a general rule – is unable to receive life saving medical care because they can't afford it. Is it perfect or convenient? No. I don't know davidgs' situation but I guarantee the child can get the care necessary.

    There is no 'insurance' for pre-existing conditions. By definition, it is impossible. A person with a pre-existing condition wants someone to share the cost, share the burden. I don't think that is wrong, I just believe they have no right to it. Communities can form around such people or situations and pool resources to provide assistance. Such groups can even petition the government to do so and if enough people agree to do so, obtain such support. But don't call it insurance. It is cost sharing. Those groups should do so at the level of government closest to the issue – community or state.

    Of course, we are faced with a 'nationwide' problem and so the desire is that a federal solution is sought. IF a proposal were being made to create and fund a pool for assistance or support of those that need cost sharing because of pre-existing conditions or inability to afford insurance, I think you would have a majority support from the nation – Americans are naturally sympathetic and charitable.

    That is not what is being offered. What is being offered is a dramatic change in the way health care is provided in this country. Because people can not afford insurance, because others have significant medical issues and can not obtain insurance, does NOT mean the system is broken. It does not mean the system has to be changed.

    I would like to see some changes that I believe will expand affordability to many people and reduce costs to everyone. However, NO change can be made to insurance to allow for pre-existing conditions. It is just not insurance if you do so.

    I don't like that government is being used for these purposes. It puts people in the position of being dependent upon government – it encourages the growth of government. As a society we can decide that is what we want – I will oppose it. Seek a system to help those that need it without changing the system that works for a hundred million people and I will support it.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    Two points: 1) Can you point me to the guarantee that Woody will
    receive the care he needs? David appears to be at the last measures
    now. 2) I don't want to be dependent on government. I want the option
    to pay for a plan that I can afford. If insurers provide it, great. If
    it's a public plan option, great. I don't want to depend on
    government, yet that's what will happen if I'm not able to get to a
    place where I can pay someone a reasonable amount for reasonable
    coverage. To me, that's the heart of the argument.

  • tracycoyle

    I can call up the medical system that provides Victoria's care and say: we can't afford the care, our child will die without it, can I bring the child in. They will and have said, we will make the appointment now. I know this system exists in Wisconsin – we used it. I know it exists in Illinois – my brother used it. I know this system exists in California – I used it (20 years ago, but there is no indication it has changed). There were/are medical bills and reasonable agreements to pay it – we are paying $250 a month on a $60,000 bill that continues to grow monthly.

    I would love to buy a car. I can't afford one. I don't think government should be used to make cars more affordable, or to give me support so I can afford one.

    There may not be a plan – at all, or that you can afford. There is no such thing as an insurance plan for a pre-existing condition (imagine a homeowners policy you could buy while the house was burning down!) Given all the criteria, there may not be a policy available to you at ANY reasonable – or even unreasonable price. That is not a problem with the system.

    Example: you have a 90% probability of needing $100,000 care in the next 10 years. $100,000 * .9 / 10 = $750 a month. If you can only afford $250, there is no way to provide you with affordable insurance.

    That is a simplistic example but it addresses the issue.

  • http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/ Karoli

    The difference between your car analogy and health is that health care
    is not optional. I will pay it one way or the other; either by
    contributing to a pool (for-profit) or by losing all our assets. The
    program you refer to is the one that David talks about being
    discontinued. It is also being discontinued in California.

  • tracycoyle

    It is being discontinued (I would wager formally) in California because California is 19 billion in the hole for it's budget and getting worse! But hey, the smelt will LIVE!

    While I agree the car analogy lacks complete substance, we don't have public transportation such that it is capable of dealing with our personal situation (V's disability). A car is necessary. Health CARE might not be optional, but health INSURANCE is. Until you need it, or can no longer qualify for it.

    There are many 20 somethings that will spend less than $1000 over the next decade on medical care for which insurance will be an expense unnecessary. But for a very small minority, their expenses will be catastrophic and sudden. No insurance will doom them financially, now, and probably for the future.

    Risk, reward. It is the system. We can't afford insurance at any 'reasonable' price. So we don't have any. Many young people will look at the potential outlay, the expense and make a determination – one that the current bill will short circuit.

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  • http://twitter.com/Mdotwrites Mdotwrites

    Thank you for writing about this.
    I started a book club this summer on Nixon Land, link here. http://bit.ly/eyBDes

    We haven’t finished it, we plan to in December. Too much school work now.

    It is nice to hear someone else relating that historical moment to now, while looking at the geneology of the Washintonian White man players AND at the manipulation of White working class racialized anger.

    Sincerely,

    Renina

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