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	<title>Comments on: Insurers Adopt Tobacco Strategy, Make Case for the Public Option</title>
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	<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/</link>
	<description>...politics, pictures, pugs and all that jazz</description>
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		<title>By: Insurers&#8217; Special Holiday Recipe, Just For You</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/comment-page-1/#comment-51185</link>
		<dc:creator>Insurers&#8217; Special Holiday Recipe, Just For You</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 05:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/#comment-51185</guid>
		<description>[...] The insurance lobby playbook they&#8217;re using today was written in 1993. They think they have a recipe for success, and they&#8217;re using it with the same ingredients, right down to this week&#8217;s statement [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The insurance lobby playbook they&#8217;re using today was written in 1993. They think they have a recipe for success, and they&#8217;re using it with the same ingredients, right down to this week&#8217;s statement [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Betsy&#8217;s Bullshit, Round 2 &#124; The Bipartisan Report</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/comment-page-1/#comment-51061</link>
		<dc:creator>Betsy&#8217;s Bullshit, Round 2 &#124; The Bipartisan Report</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/#comment-51061</guid>
		<description>[...] example serves as a beacon for Betsy&#8217;s service to her insurer masters. As the tobacco industry spokesperson during the Clinton years, she published provably false statements which were framed and written by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] example serves as a beacon for Betsy&#8217;s service to her insurer masters. As the tobacco industry spokesperson during the Clinton years, she published provably false statements which were framed and written by [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Meet The Right Wing Charity Cartel</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/comment-page-1/#comment-50924</link>
		<dc:creator>Meet The Right Wing Charity Cartel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 02:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/#comment-50924</guid>
		<description>[...] fact, all of the organizations I&#8217;ve listed here contributed to the organizations named in the tobacco strategy memo I wrote about last week. This time, they&#8217;re funding those organizations with a goal of defeating health care reform. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] fact, all of the organizations I&#8217;ve listed here contributed to the organizations named in the tobacco strategy memo I wrote about last week. This time, they&#8217;re funding those organizations with a goal of defeating health care reform. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: disgustedbyyourblog</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/comment-page-1/#comment-51600</link>
		<dc:creator>disgustedbyyourblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 04:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/#comment-51600</guid>
		<description>Here are two web sites regarding the Public Option that might be of help to you.&lt;br&gt;1.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/29/which-chart-best-exposes-obamacares-true-impact-on-the-deficit/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/29/which-chart...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;2.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/hostedemail/email.htm?h=1ccf572c22cbb30f4307c8495e51d4fa&amp;CID=4992992489&amp;ch=54AC8C2AEC6C0D285C6900584403E0EE&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/hoste...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You&#039;re not getting what you think you are demanding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are two web sites regarding the Public Option that might be of help to you.<br />1.  <a href="http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/29/which-chart-best-exposes-obamacares-true-impact-on-the-deficit/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/29/which-chart.." rel="nofollow">http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/29/which-chart..</a>.<br />2.  <a href="http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/hostedemail/email.htm?h=1ccf572c22cbb30f4307c8495e51d4fa&#038;CID=4992992489&#038;ch=54AC8C2AEC6C0D285C6900584403E0EE" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/hoste.." rel="nofollow">http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/hoste..</a>.</p>
<p>You&#39;re not getting what you think you are demanding.</p>
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		<title>By: disgustedbyyourblog</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/comment-page-1/#comment-50905</link>
		<dc:creator>disgustedbyyourblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/#comment-50905</guid>
		<description>Here are two web sites regarding the Public Option that might be of help to you.&lt;br&gt;1.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/29/which-chart-best-exposes-obamacares-true-impact-on-the-deficit/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/29/which-chart...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;2.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/hostedemail/email.htm?h=1ccf572c22cbb30f4307c8495e51d4fa&amp;CID=4992992489&amp;ch=54AC8C2AEC6C0D285C6900584403E0EE&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/hoste...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You&#039;re not getting what you think you are demanding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are two web sites regarding the Public Option that might be of help to you.<br />1.  <a href="http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/29/which-chart-best-exposes-obamacares-true-impact-on-the-deficit/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/29/which-chart.." rel="nofollow">http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/29/which-chart..</a>.<br />2.  <a href="http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/hostedemail/email.htm?h=1ccf572c22cbb30f4307c8495e51d4fa&#038;CID=4992992489&#038;ch=54AC8C2AEC6C0D285C6900584403E0EE" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/hoste.." rel="nofollow">http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/hoste..</a>.</p>
<p>You&#39;re not getting what you think you are demanding.</p>
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		<title>By: disgustedbyyourblog</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/comment-page-1/#comment-50904</link>
		<dc:creator>disgustedbyyourblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/#comment-50904</guid>
		<description>Cynematic, You raise a good quesiton about war.  When we went to war in Iraq I was concerned as to why Iraq when we were told Taliban&#039;s headquarters were in other places.  When the WMD did not turn up as expected, I too was upset.  The thing about Iraq that I take away is that Saddam was stopped from exterminating his own countrymen.  The people are working towards a democratic government, and they are learning a different way of life to bring them out from under the affects of an oppressive government.  If the reason for war in Iraq was only to line the coffers of Haliburton, then that&#039;s a tragedy.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t rule out the need for a country to arm itself to protect itself.  I support paying taxes to arm our military.  That&#039;s what we do.  We pay the military to protect us.  It costs money.  It causes death.  It is necessary at times.  Does that mean I think all wars are justified?  No.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Health care like anything else costs money too.  I just look at how we pay for our own health care in a very different way than you.  I look at the free market and private sector to provide jobs for our salaries and insurance for our catastrophic expenses to help cover them.  I don&#039;t look to government to pay all of my medical expenses.  I do not look to those who earn over $3million a year to pay for may medical expenses.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;How do you put Marx and Reagan together?  When you know what Marx stood for and the results of countries that adopted his ideology, you don&#039;t get the results that Reagan institued here.  So not sure what you mean by that. . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cynematic, You raise a good quesiton about war.  When we went to war in Iraq I was concerned as to why Iraq when we were told Taliban&#39;s headquarters were in other places.  When the WMD did not turn up as expected, I too was upset.  The thing about Iraq that I take away is that Saddam was stopped from exterminating his own countrymen.  The people are working towards a democratic government, and they are learning a different way of life to bring them out from under the affects of an oppressive government.  If the reason for war in Iraq was only to line the coffers of Haliburton, then that&#39;s a tragedy.</p>
<p>I don&#39;t rule out the need for a country to arm itself to protect itself.  I support paying taxes to arm our military.  That&#39;s what we do.  We pay the military to protect us.  It costs money.  It causes death.  It is necessary at times.  Does that mean I think all wars are justified?  No.</p>
<p>Health care like anything else costs money too.  I just look at how we pay for our own health care in a very different way than you.  I look at the free market and private sector to provide jobs for our salaries and insurance for our catastrophic expenses to help cover them.  I don&#39;t look to government to pay all of my medical expenses.  I do not look to those who earn over $3million a year to pay for may medical expenses.</p>
<p>How do you put Marx and Reagan together?  When you know what Marx stood for and the results of countries that adopted his ideology, you don&#39;t get the results that Reagan institued here.  So not sure what you mean by that. . .</p>
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		<title>By: Karoli</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/comment-page-1/#comment-50901</link>
		<dc:creator>Karoli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/#comment-50901</guid>
		<description>I think at this point, it is a waste of your time and mine to argue  &lt;br&gt;the point. Your mind will not be changed, nor will mine. There is a  &lt;br&gt;time where it&#039;s worth acknowledging that we both have a grasp of our  &lt;br&gt;facts, whatever those are, and agree to disagree. While it bothers me  &lt;br&gt;that you are willing to be led by those with high monetary gains in  &lt;br&gt;front of their rhetoric, I&#039;m grateful that we live in a country that  &lt;br&gt;allows us both to hold differing opinions, express them, and vote  &lt;br&gt;accordingly. The post you&#039;re commenting on simply reported facts. The  &lt;br&gt;millions of dollars spent by a very few people to shape the debate is  &lt;br&gt;not what I call democracy. As long as you&#039;re okay with that, so be it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;By the way...my Republican husband is no longer a Republican (nor is  &lt;br&gt;he a Democrat), primarily because of their refusal to sit down at the  &lt;br&gt;table and have an honest debate about health care reform. Further, he  &lt;br&gt;strongly supports a public option because he has enough real-life  &lt;br&gt;experience with insurers to understand that until they are forced to  &lt;br&gt;deal with their customers honestly, they won&#039;t. He will also tell you  &lt;br&gt;about the free markets we don&#039;t have in this country, and how the  &lt;br&gt;actions of a few endanger the lives, livelihoods, and financial  &lt;br&gt;security of many. Again, his perspective comes from years of  &lt;br&gt;observation inside and outside of the industry. His word, not mine,  &lt;br&gt;for the intellectual dishonesty of the Republican attitude on health  &lt;br&gt;care reform? Shameful.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That doesn&#039;t mean he&#039;s turned into a liberal. He hasn&#039;t. He&#039;s  &lt;br&gt;inherently conservative, and believes the best option for health care  &lt;br&gt;is single payer, because it&#039;s the most cost-effective. But he&#039;s  &lt;br&gt;pragmatic, and will support a strong public option in lieu of single  &lt;br&gt;payer, with the goal of getting to single payer at some point. He also  &lt;br&gt;believes that Medicare should be expanded to age 50 as part of the  &lt;br&gt;final bill, with Medicare Advantage phased out over the next 10  &lt;br&gt;years.  At the core of his beliefs, there is a strong understanding of  &lt;br&gt;the economic disaster awaiting large and small businesses as well as  &lt;br&gt;individuals if we do not get our health care system reformed.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So...I agree to disagree with you. I&#039;m sorry my views disgust you, but  &lt;br&gt;really, try on the other side of the debate for a few minutes and see  &lt;br&gt;if you can at least view it through a less tainted lens than the one  &lt;br&gt;bought and paid for by our insurance lobby. You won&#039;t agree, but you  &lt;br&gt;might be less disgusted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think at this point, it is a waste of your time and mine to argue  <br />the point. Your mind will not be changed, nor will mine. There is a  <br />time where it&#39;s worth acknowledging that we both have a grasp of our  <br />facts, whatever those are, and agree to disagree. While it bothers me  <br />that you are willing to be led by those with high monetary gains in  <br />front of their rhetoric, I&#39;m grateful that we live in a country that  <br />allows us both to hold differing opinions, express them, and vote  <br />accordingly. The post you&#39;re commenting on simply reported facts. The  <br />millions of dollars spent by a very few people to shape the debate is  <br />not what I call democracy. As long as you&#39;re okay with that, so be it.</p>
<p>By the way&#8230;my Republican husband is no longer a Republican (nor is  <br />he a Democrat), primarily because of their refusal to sit down at the  <br />table and have an honest debate about health care reform. Further, he  <br />strongly supports a public option because he has enough real-life  <br />experience with insurers to understand that until they are forced to  <br />deal with their customers honestly, they won&#39;t. He will also tell you  <br />about the free markets we don&#39;t have in this country, and how the  <br />actions of a few endanger the lives, livelihoods, and financial  <br />security of many. Again, his perspective comes from years of  <br />observation inside and outside of the industry. His word, not mine,  <br />for the intellectual dishonesty of the Republican attitude on health  <br />care reform? Shameful.</p>
<p>That doesn&#39;t mean he&#39;s turned into a liberal. He hasn&#39;t. He&#39;s  <br />inherently conservative, and believes the best option for health care  <br />is single payer, because it&#39;s the most cost-effective. But he&#39;s  <br />pragmatic, and will support a strong public option in lieu of single  <br />payer, with the goal of getting to single payer at some point. He also  <br />believes that Medicare should be expanded to age 50 as part of the  <br />final bill, with Medicare Advantage phased out over the next 10  <br />years.  At the core of his beliefs, there is a strong understanding of  <br />the economic disaster awaiting large and small businesses as well as  <br />individuals if we do not get our health care system reformed.</p>
<p>So&#8230;I agree to disagree with you. I&#39;m sorry my views disgust you, but  <br />really, try on the other side of the debate for a few minutes and see  <br />if you can at least view it through a less tainted lens than the one  <br />bought and paid for by our insurance lobby. You won&#39;t agree, but you  <br />might be less disgusted.</p>
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		<title>By: Karoli</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/comment-page-1/#comment-50900</link>
		<dc:creator>Karoli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/#comment-50900</guid>
		<description>My sense is that we&#039;re not going to see pushback until health care  &lt;br&gt;reform passes. that&#039;s got to get through before there&#039;s anything  &lt;br&gt;aggressive. And duhhh, I remember your Phil Gramm essay on MOMocrats!  &lt;br&gt;The brain melts in the face of all the info hitting it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My sense is that we&#39;re not going to see pushback until health care  <br />reform passes. that&#39;s got to get through before there&#39;s anything  <br />aggressive. And duhhh, I remember your Phil Gramm essay on MOMocrats!  <br />The brain melts in the face of all the info hitting it.</p>
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		<title>By: Cynematic</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/comment-page-1/#comment-50899</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynematic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/#comment-50899</guid>
		<description>Disgusted (or should that be &quot;Disgusting&quot;?),&lt;br&gt;I read through all that and didn&#039;t see your reply to Karoli&#039;s question on the Iraq war and how much that costs us per day.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Where were you in Feb/March of 2003, when this war was being launched? I don&#039;t know about you but I was out on the streets with hundreds of thousands of people screaming at the top of our lungs that we should not enter into this--faked evidence, it&#039;ll be a quagmire (yup, still there, STILL having our servicepeople killed and STILL sucking the life out of our economy), we couldn&#039;t win where the British had failed. So unless you can show some evidence that the billions unaccounted for that went to Hallburton pisses you off as much as spending taxpayer money to save 45,000 Americans from needlessly dying for lack of health care per year, you don&#039;t have much credibility.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Why shouldn&#039;t people who earn more than $3million a year pay more in taxes? You know, like they did under that Marxist Reagan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disgusted (or should that be &#8220;Disgusting&#8221;?),<br />I read through all that and didn&#39;t see your reply to Karoli&#39;s question on the Iraq war and how much that costs us per day.</p>
<p>Where were you in Feb/March of 2003, when this war was being launched? I don&#39;t know about you but I was out on the streets with hundreds of thousands of people screaming at the top of our lungs that we should not enter into this&#8211;faked evidence, it&#39;ll be a quagmire (yup, still there, STILL having our servicepeople killed and STILL sucking the life out of our economy), we couldn&#39;t win where the British had failed. So unless you can show some evidence that the billions unaccounted for that went to Hallburton pisses you off as much as spending taxpayer money to save 45,000 Americans from needlessly dying for lack of health care per year, you don&#39;t have much credibility.</p>
<p>Why shouldn&#39;t people who earn more than $3million a year pay more in taxes? You know, like they did under that Marxist Reagan?</p>
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		<title>By: Cynematic</title>
		<link>http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/comment-page-1/#comment-50898</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynematic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/10/12/insurers-adopt-tobacco-strategy-make-case-for-the-public-option/#comment-50898</guid>
		<description>I know all about Phil Gramm, having written a MOMocrats post called &quot;Thanks for the Subprime Meltdown, Phil Gramm!&quot; The fact that Bill Clinton signed this piece of crap legislation was an additional reason why I couldn&#039;t support Hillary. Was she really going to repeal a piece of legislation her husband had signed, and in doing so rebuke part of his legacy?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Although, with Obama, it&#039;s not like we&#039;re seeing him take any leadership in getting rid of this unregulated environment even though he has no personal or political conflict of interest in going against Bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know all about Phil Gramm, having written a MOMocrats post called &#8220;Thanks for the Subprime Meltdown, Phil Gramm!&#8221; The fact that Bill Clinton signed this piece of crap legislation was an additional reason why I couldn&#39;t support Hillary. Was she really going to repeal a piece of legislation her husband had signed, and in doing so rebuke part of his legacy?</p>
<p>Although, with Obama, it&#39;s not like we&#39;re seeing him take any leadership in getting rid of this unregulated environment even though he has no personal or political conflict of interest in going against Bill.</p>
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